Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
If he was a Jewish journalist amongst Palestinians he would be raped and killed. I applaud the kids for defending their friend from this terrorist. I applaud them for not acting like animals like other cultures would.
Mongidig, posts that dehumanize entire cultures are not permissible in this thread and will be moderated as racist.
Please take a break from this thread until 12:00 AM Eastern Time. Thank you.
Varoufakis is a discredited madman rejected by his own people.
If he was a Jewish journalist amongst Palestinians he would be raped and killed. I applaud the kids for defending their friend from this terrorist. I applaud them for not acting like animals like other cultures would.
This x 1000.
If the roles were reversed, the journalist would be brutally murdered.
It is indeed just another day of Hamas hiding among civilians to force Israel to kill Gazans.
Hamas’ utter disregard for the people they govern is indeed disgusting.
It is indeed just another day of Hamas hiding among civilians to force Israel to kill Gazans.
Hamas’ utter disregard for the people they govern is indeed disgusting.
The Israelis report that the hostages were being held in civilian homes (under what conditions of compulsion or co-operation we don't know). The high death toll in the rescue is sobering, but the Israelis were entitled to do whatever it took and to set a high price on hostage-taking and hostage-holding. (It's just a pity that they've given such extravagant and encouraging rewards to hostage-takers in the past, which I guess they now realise is a thing that, per international best practice, you don't do. Their past compliant behaviour may be a reason why Hamas took the hostages, thinking it would prevent retaliation for the crimes of Oct 7.)
The Israelis report that the hostages were being held in civilian homes (under what conditions of compulsion or co-operation we don't know). The high death toll in the rescue is sobering, but the Israelis were entitled to do whatever it took and to set a high price on hostage-taking and hostage-holding. (It's just a pity that they've given such extravagant and encouraging rewards to hostage-takers in the past, which I guess they now realise
Do you think the Hamas reported death toll is accurate? If I had to guess, I would say shave off a 0 at least from the reported death toll. And probably another 1/4 were directly killed by Palestinian "civilians" who engaged Israeli commandos in a firefight during the extraction.
Also, if I had to guess, I would say Hamas was not involved at all in holding the hostages, or fighting the Israeli's on the way out. It was 100% "civilians."
Obviously, not everyone is a fighter with a weapons cache in their living room, or holding hostages in their home. But some non negligible % of Palestinians "civilians" are doing these things. Which is a direct reason why there is fighting and casualties, even when there is no Hamas members to be found.
It is indeed just another day of Hamas hiding among civilians to force Israel to kill Gazans.
Hamas’ utter disregard for the people they govern is indeed disgusting.
Again, I would not be surprised if Hamas wasn't involved at all. At some point you need to accept there are a lot of non Hamas Palestinians directly involved in the resistance; and you cant just frame it as Hamas holding the entire Palestinian population hostage.
It is indeed just another day of Hamas hiding among civilians to force Israel to kill Gazans.
Hamas’ utter disregard for the people they govern is indeed disgusting.
When groups take hostages it does not force us to kill them We just dont do that.
Unless the lives of the hostages somehow aren't considered very important.
there are reports that another 15 or so hamas rapists operating on another unrwa site got their arseholes blown into outer space by the brave boys and girls of the IDF 👍
there are reports that another 15 or so hamas rapists operating on another unrwa site got their arseholes blown into outer space by the brave boys and girls of the IDF 👍
Although a small number of individual instances may have happened, I suspect the majority of claims of "organized rape" from both sides are just made up propaganda. I dont think going to this level of propaganda is necessary or productive.
Israel is within its rights to attack Hamas bases fronting as UNRWA "schools" regardless.
Ironically, Hamas actually had to admonish the propagandists to dial it back a couple notches at one point because when they initially wanted Palestinians to move back into Northern Gaza (to give them cover) there was a lot of resistance because of all the made-up anti Israeli propaganda.
as reported by most mainstream outlets, hamas consider the systematic rape of israeli jews to be an appropriate expression of resistance
so when reporters working for the guardian, to take one example of many, say that they have seen multiple pieces of corroborating evidence that hamas engaged in systematic rape on oct 7, what do you think is motivating them to lie about that?
i just read the full times article and can confirm that NO DEBUNKING has occurred on this day
the Times itself/the writers of the piece does not claim that mass rape did not occur. they remain silent on the issue and present claim and counter-claim to the reader.
the article in fact says that investigators say that mass rape did not occur. more on those investigators in a moment.
there are three central themes/claims:
1) some zaka people who were first on the scene exaggerated what they saw. helpful quote from one of the investigators, "They are all religious guys; most of them are ultra-religious. They never saw a woman except their wife”
2) a womens rights laywer feminist chick (investigator 2) who thinks there was no rape is mad as hell that some other womens rights lawyer feminist chick is getting way more attention than her from israeli society
3) a psychologist (investigator 3) for a charity set up to help survivors of the nova festival told the times, quote, "I don’t think there were a lot of sexual assaults"
https://www.thetimes.com/magazines/the-t...
no paywall until monday
foolish of the times to publish a piece with a headline which reads "The Israeli government insists that Hamas formally sanctioned sexual assault on October 7, 2023. But investigators say the evidence does not stand up to scrutiny." without making it clear that those investigators have nothing to do with the times
it should have been obvious that people who are keen to attach a credible organisation to their theories on rape denial, such as jalfrezi, would misrepresent the article
Do you think the Hamas reported death toll is accurate? If I had to guess, I would say shave off a 0 at least from the reported death toll. And probably another 1/4 were directly killed by Palestinian "civilians" who engaged Israeli commandos in a firefight during the extraction.
Also, if I had to guess, I would say Hamas was not involved at all in holding the hostages, or fighting the Israeli's on the way out. It was 100% "civilians."
O
I think the death toll is fairly accurate, but it includes people killed by Hamas friendly fire/rockets and people who died for very indirect or totally unrelated reasons.
and people killed by Hamas because they helped IDF
what's totally made up is how many of them are Hamas proper or collaborators (which includes a lot of women and "children", because a 16y old boy can be a combatant), ie people whose death we should celebrate with a smile, which is a very high percentage of the total
