Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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I thought it might.
Unsubstantiated rumours that in its unbated killing spree cheered on by posters here the IDF killed three Israeli hostages, including an American citizen.
Interesting if true.
I would say what happened in order of likelihood are:
1. The three hostages have been dead for a long time
2. The three hostages were killed by Palestinians in retaliation for the rescue
3. Three hostages actually were killed during the extraction
4. It is completely made up
-And no matter what the actual truth is, Hamas will claim #3 is the truth. And all the pro Hamas partisans that are so critical of every claim made by Israel, will completely uncritically accept whatever Hamas says as true for tribal/ideological reasons, despite a long history of Hamas being completely dishonest.
And at some point we really need to address the Qatar/Al Jazeera elephant in the room; and how much the US at the govt and private industry level is enabling extremely dishonest, destructive behavior that is a large part of the problem.
And all the American universities that have been accepting Qatar money hand over fist really need to question their own prerogatives and integrity.
It's all just speculation until bodies are produced (or an investigation shows us what happened, or one side admits the truth - a bit like the claims of mass rapes on 7/10).
Unsubstantiated rumours that in its unbated killing spree cheered on by posters here the IDF killed three Israeli hostages, including an American citizen.
Interesting if true.
I don’t observe anyone here cheering on a killing spree. And it’s pretty deplorable that you would be interested in Israeli hostages including an American citizen would be killed.
I don’t observe anyone here cheering on a killing spree. And it’s pretty deplorable that you would be interested in Israeli hostages including an American citizen would be killed.
Then you haven't been paying attention.
It would be interesting if it turned out that three hostages were killed by the IDF, don't you think? Also if one of them turned out to be an American.
Hostages can die in rescue operations and it's still 100% exclusively the responsibility of the hostage takers.
It's insane to even try to argue something else.
If IDF killed 3 hostages while trying to save them, they have been killed by Hamas actions, like every person who died in Gaza because of the war since 10 7.
You try to save them, and you can fail, and there is no shame or guilt in that.
That said, I will only believe that happened if/when sources that i can trust (IE people who never sided with Hamas on any occasion) confirm that
I don’t observe anyone here cheering on a killing spree. And it’s pretty deplorable that you would be interested in Israeli hostages including an American citizen would be killed.
I do cheer every time a terrorist gets killed, why shouldn't I? The world is a better place every time that happens.
Then you haven't been paying attention.
It would be interesting if it turned out that three hostages were killed by the IDF, don't you think? Also if one of them turned out to be an American.
Do you also find it interesting that Palestinian "civilian" doctors, lawyers and Al Jazeera employees were actively holding Israeli hostages, and engaged IDF in a firefight when IDF tried to extract them?
Knowing this to be the case, will this affect your willingness to uncritically accept claims made by Palestinians doctors/lawyers/journalists moving forward.
If you're hanging onto any variety of rape denial after even the UN and HRW have acknowledged a large number of rapes happened during the attacks and hostages' of captivity, you're just being willfully blind. This is far beyond the realm of "believe women"; we're firmly in the territory of beyond a shadow of doubt that many rapes happened.
And if you keep harping on "planned" or not after Hamas continually "allowing" the rapes to happen while the hostages are in captivity then openly saying they regret nothing and will try to do Oct 7 again, and at a bigger scale, then you're just a tool undeserving of the oxygen you consume. I am not talking about any poster in the thread in particular. I am talking about many anti-establishment left leaningn people who simply cannot fathom those fighting a common enemy (western hegemony, colonizers, whatever) can be evil. The enemy of your enemy sometimes just isn't a friend you want.
I am going to leave this here in the hopes that you rape deniers (including the variety that says some variation of "but Hamas didn't plan it", "but it wasn't systematic", and other mental gymnastics of why the rapes aren't that bad, can realize how transparently awful your positions on rape on Oct 7th are.
Do you also find it interesting that Palestinian "civilian" doctors, lawyers and Al Jazeera employees were actively holding Israeli hostages, and engaged IDF in a firefight when IDF tried to extract them?
Knowing this to be the case, will this affect your willingness to uncritically accept claims made by Palestinians doctors/lawyers/journalists moving forward.
So many "civilians" killed are actually terrorists yes. That includes "children" (16-17y old boys) and some women, which for some reason are listed aside every time as if it was impossible for a woman to be Hamas, de iure o de facto.
Somebody is cooking for Hamas every day and I don't think it's all men
Do you also find it interesting that Palestinian "civilian" doctors, lawyers and Al Jazeera employees were actively holding Israeli hostages, and engaged IDF in a firefight when IDF tried to extract them?
Knowing this to be the case, will this affect your willingness to uncritically accept claims made by Palestinians doctors/lawyers/journalists moving forward.
That would be interesting to me. Link please?
If you're hanging onto any variety of rape denial after even the UN and HRW have acknowledged a large number of rapes happened during the attacks and hostages' of captivity, you're just being willfully blind. This is far beyond the realm of "believe women"; we're firmly in the territory of beyond a shadow of doubt that many rapes happened.
And if you keep harping on "planned" or not after Hamas continually "allowing" the rapes to happen whil
We need to add the reminder here that there is significant (if fringe) support to Hamas narrative and actions by the ultra-alt-actual-far-right in western countries.
They might not be as numerous as the pro Hamas leftists but they have strong social media presences
I do cheer every time a terrorist gets killed, why shouldn't I? The world is a better place every time that happens.
Because you care about your mental health. Wishing for and cheering for people to die degrades your mental health, irrespective of who those people are. I’d submit that a better use of our collective mental energy is to figure out ways that people don’t have to die unnaturally
Then you haven't been paying attention.
It would be interesting if it turned out that three hostages were killed by the IDF, don't you think? Also if one of them turned out to be an American.
I don’t think think it would be interesting. Sad, tragic - those are words that come to mind anytime someone is killed or dies unnaturally. “Interesting” isn’t something that comes to mind, regardless of who the person is that is killed.
I don’t think think it would be interesting. Sad, tragic - those are words that come to mind anytime someone is killed or dies unnaturally. “Interesting” isn’t something that comes to mind, regardless of who the person is that is killed.
When really evil people die (say, any member of Hamas or material supporter) sad and tragic is not what normal people think.
That's when innocent people die sure (like hostages, if it happened).
Because you care about your mental health. Wishing for and cheering for people to die degrades your mental health, irrespective of who those people are. I’d submit that a better use of our collective mental energy is to figure out ways that people don’t have to die unnaturally
I don't think you have reasons to believe that.
I trust you are in good faith about this.
But I don't think you are correct if you believe mental health requires ultra-leftist universalism of human life value to work properly.
Our brains are actually built to deeply enjoy the demise of whomever we consider an enemy.
You might have a point if I was projecting the enemy label over people I just disagree with (that can affect mental issues negatively).
But actual monsters who kill randomly and take hostages??? Lol I would say a person is NOT mentally healthy if he doesn't feel a profound sense of well being at the idea of them being killed.
The main way to stop needing to kill people, is to kill all those we need to kill asap. So then we can stop.
i can explain this one - tankie twitter has a specific fixation/fantasy about israelis killing americans
old hands itt might recall that really weird series of posts a few months ago about the importance of israel hitting an american ship in a friendly fire incident in the 1960s. same deal
Only "people like me" want to be sure of the facts before we accuse people of mass rape (though individual rapes happen in most wars, as BOIDS himself observed). Of course, all are disgusting acts and among the worst atrocities of war.
You want to condemn people on the grounds of Israeli government accusations which they refuse to officially investigate. Now I wonder why that is.
If your concern is for the victims of rape you should be focuss
I’ll pass on going back and forth on the same point over and over again with you,
Keep using the word “mass” to justify your disgusting POV.
AIPAC is using republican donors money to back pro-Israel democratic candidates.
Hamas supporters don't like it.
This is how you make a real difference in politics.
If a Jew that rapes an Arab woman for nationalistic reasons can be tried under the same law, what's your objection to it?
“Clearly it means that Arab or Palestinian men who are accused of rape might be tried according to a totally different procedure from Jewish men who rape,” Aharoni says. She calls the prospect “unthinkable”, pointing out that besides the racial implication, it sought to create “a hierarchy of victimhood” among rape survivors. Israel’s Association of Rape Crisis Centres (ARCCI) fought the law, unsuccessfully, on the same grounds.
Dr. Aharoni is one of the founding members of the IWC (International Women’s Commission) and has been active in promoting women’s rights in Israel as a member of Isha l’Isha-Haifa Feminist Center.
Because you care about your mental health. Wishing for and cheering for people to die degrades your mental health, irrespective of who those people are. I’d submit that a better use of our collective mental energy is to figure out ways that people don’t have to die unnaturally
I agree. A good place to start would be not conducting mass slaughters of civilians including children, don't you think?
Gs3737, please take a timeout from this thread until 12:00 AM Eastern Time for again violating the personal attacks rule. The next one will be a ban for you, friend. Thank you.
