Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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The 153 weren’t “people in the world”. They were UN delegates.
And I don’t agree that a majority of people in the world support violence against Jewish people, though I don’t know how we can prove this one way or the other.
I'd only just begun reading up on the recruitment and training camps for Hamas that do 15-21 year olds. I'll be honest I didn't know the extent of the roles the 15-16-17 year olds played. There have been some mind blowing pieces I've been reading. I'll post some tomorrow.
I just don't know what to do with that fact. Putting an weapon in a 16 year old's hands is just more than I can conceive.
And btw the Israeli settler side is BAD too. I get
Don't know why this should be so inconceivable. Do you think most militaries in history have only recruited 18+? Even today 17s can join the US military with parental approval. I just saw some footage of the 80th anniversary of D-day memorials. The reason any of those guys are still alive is because many were underage when they joined.
One man interviewed said he joined at the age of 15 by lying about his age. Not many 15s can pass for 18; I'm going to guess his recruiters weren't trying very hard to keep out underage applicants.
The implication is that they don’t trust Bibi because they think he’s not extreme enough lol.
Very recent polls give you a completly different picture
Three weeks ago 70%+ wanted more blood:
Saying that the operation should continue does not imply that you agree with exactly how it has been run, or that you like the person currently in charge, nor that you think that person is not killing fast enough.
I would expect that there are a good number of people who think the operation should continue, but with an attempt to kill fewer civilians. This seems to be the official Biden administration position as well.
those were responses to the typical terrorist rocket firing in 2021
as per my link:
The poll also asked respondents about the Israeli hostage-for-ceasefire proposal that US President Joe Biden recently revealed, with 56% saying they were in favor and 24% against. The remaining 20% did not know.
//
Not that it matters because Hamas isn't going to release the hostages
Try this instead (date checked this time!)
One of the questions in the Tel Aviv University poll deals with the amount of force the Israeli army is using in Gaza. Less than 2 percent of the respondents said they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was using too much firepower. Perhaps even more horrifyingly, nearly 58 percent said they were using too little firepower.
was correct because there were areas of gaza where hamas was able to keep going with impunity.
That's not the case anymore. You know, time changes thing.
What Gaza operation was going on in 2021?
a response to rocket attacks
If your point was that Israel should have completly annihilated Hamas the first time, and militarily occupied Gaza after that, then yes i agree
."
Countries do not want to invest into a system that is going to attack Israel again, resulting in their investment being blown up again and thereby requiring even further investments. The incentives are there, and some countries recognize that this kind of destabilization is not good; there are countries willing to help, Israel needs to figure out how they can work together.
UNRWA
It’s just the path of least resistance to work with people willing to compromise with Hamas.
And since Hamas takes maximalist positions, compromise effectively means collaboration that includes, as is undisputed by now, storing weapons and even holding hostages. They knew it was happening and chose to do nothing about it.
I don't know how that pertains to the quote.
I am telling you they did and will invest in a system that will attack Israel again because it’s expedient.
And one of those systems was, and will be some version of, UNRWA.
Everyone has signalled they will not contribute to governing/occupying Gaza. US is like we give you money and you guys go on the ground. Arab League’s like we need peacekeepers in Gaza… and btw we aren’t doing it. Europe’s just like we aren’t going to take Palestinian refugees.
Everyone involved has been telegraphing their lack of appetite for governing Gaza. Besides, international reactions to the numerous crises since Hamas took over had been sending Israel the same message: just take the punches and keep us out of it. If you still believe international actors will occupy/govern Gaza and sustain such efforts, then you just haven’t been listening and I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
To put differently, they all recognize something needs to be done and they all want someone else to do it.
And if history is any guide, it means nobody does anything beyond sending more money and we know that much of that money inevitably ends up financing the Hamas military machine.
You could argue until you’re blue in the face that we will do better this time but Israel can justifiably say “fool me once… fool me twice… fool me thrice… we’ve had it.”
The question of Israelis wanting a Gaza op to continue until:
-All 120 are returned or rescued
-Hamas is effectively replaced
Isn't a shocking discovery in a post Oct 7 world. Nobody wants the last 8 months to be for nothing. Nobody wants the 120 to stay there. So in some capacity, it's going to go on. Btw with the tunnels they found in Rafah, wonder how many of the 120 are completely out and in totally different countries now.
Thanks for clarifying. How do you think UNRWA directly contributed to Hamas attacking Israel? (I am not trying to suggest that they did not by asking this.)
The UNRWA funding is not going to be on the same level as the rebuilding of Gaza would require. Countries will need to invest far more heavily in order to accomplish that, and I am not convinced that they will just shrug at the bill if they think Hamas or another group is going to commit another terrorist attack resulting in their investments being destroyed.
No one wants to govern Gaza, I agree. I think it's some time off still, it is early in negotiations and USA has a lot more leverage to use for this situation.
Hamas was conducting terrorist operations out in the open for twenty plus years with rocket launches and training camps and everyone knew they were diverting most of the aid to fund their military machinery.
We even allowed their hateful propaganda to proliferate in UNRWA schools. (Which to me is an even bigger problem long term than weapons storage).
A bigger and even more well funded version of UNRWA will still need to collaborate with Hamas or it just won’t be allowed to operate, unless we get boots on the ground to make Hamas cooperate.
Meanwhile Hamas is attacking crossings so Israel can’t send aid in. This is completely on brand. Hamas has consistently said no to aid unless it can distribute the aid itself and take credit for it.
