Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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How many human shields does each Hamas fighter have? One imagines they walk about town with like a dozen toddlers strapped to them, very challenging to maneuver on the battlefield like that, tbh.
How many human shields does each Hamas fighter have? One imagines they walk about town with like a dozen toddlers strapped to them, very challenging to maneuver on the battlefield like that, tbh.
Lets do a thought experiment. Imagine that in every aspect of the civilian infrastructure the Chinese baked in ai level military relevant technology.
In that case it might be easier to count the non-shields humans.
Trolly this is from TODAY
Honestly I hadn't even seen it yet before posting
This is literally what we're talking about. He both wants, and needs it. He engineers it.
“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” Yahya Sinwar told other Hamas leaders recently, according to one of the messages, the WSJ reported Monday. In another, Sinwar is said to have described civilian deaths as “necessary sacrifices” while citing past independence-related conflicts in countries like Algeria.
That's all these people are to him. Sacrifices.
"In another exchange that took place as Israel set a deadline in February to enter Rafah before the Muslim month of Ramadan, the WSJ reported that Sinwar urged Hamas’ political leaders not to make concessions and instead push for a permanent end to the war, adding that high civilian casualties would ramp up global pressure on Israel to halt the conflict."
I mean bros. just doesn't get more transparent.
How many human shields does each Hamas fighter have? One imagines they walk about town with like a dozen toddlers strapped to them, very challenging to maneuver on the battlefield like that, tbh.
They live among "civilians". They make base among "civilians".
Up until now we thought those people were victims. Human shields.
Now we know some (many?) of them know what's going kn perfectly well and are happy to "do their part" for the terrorist effort.
That is absolutely a fake source. Lets change this forum to using and allowing real sources and citations.
Sorry, by which standard is that a fake source?
A question to the "it's civilians they have no responsibility"
Do you think it would have been moral to give the death penalty to the people who ratted out Anne Frank location to Nazi authorities, when we won the war?
(I do, it's a shame they lived)
Yes/no?
There aren't any "pro-terrorist" people posting here, unless you count supporters of the Israeli government.
Sorry but if you walk like a terrorist supporter, link sources that are linked by terrorist supporter, use narratives used by terrorist supporters, and quack like a terrorist supporter, you are a terrorist supporter.
Nothing personal, just a general definition
lol nonsense. If you condemn the violence on both sides you're a terrorist supporter?
A question to the "it's civilians they have no responsibility"
Do you think it would have been moral to give the death penalty to the people who ratted out Anne Frank location to Nazi authorities, when we won the war?
(I do, it's a shame they lived)
Yes/no?
I don't support governments carrying out the death penalty.
Sorry, by which standard is that a fake source?
regardless of the fact those articles are using the same "source" of a guy saying he saw some messages.
the idea that israel intentionally murdering countless innocent civilians being bad PR for israel is kinda obvious, no?
Yes if you condemn violence in the pursuit of elimination of terrorists you help terrorists. Because a denial that violence can be the only tool available to solve problems does help violent people.
If you deny there is a moral imperative to kill terrorists you help them.
I do understand you claim to be doing this from a principled position.
But you are still helping (supporting) them every time you end up agreeing with anything that helps them, no matter why you do that.
Violence for self defense requires glorification. Denialism about violence being a useful and moral tool every single time irrational enemies exist helps violent people.
If you self-limit yourself or a society victim of other people violence to only non violent methods, you let them win.
Sorry, by which standard is that a fake source?
When you say 'someone said' you need to cite THEM. Not someone saying what they said.
You are citing news media. And that media has a very strong reputation for biased reporting and not properly citing people. And then you are taking paraphrases from that news.
Thats not source and citation at all, thats the OPPOSITE.
When you say 'someone said' you need to cite THEM. Not someone saying what they said.
You are citing news media. And that media has a very strong reputation for biased reporting and not properly citing people. And then you are taking paraphrases from that news.
Thats not source and citation at all, thats the OPPOSITE.
I'm sorry, but if the world is going to take Hamas casualty numbers at immediate face value, these articles are at least as credible.
But the idea you guys think a source that sees Sinwar's correspondences is going to be NAMED, is funny. Very very funny, like the BBC guy asking why the IDF didn't warn Hamas before coming. Guys really, how you name the source here and have them survive?
Sometimes, you take the WSJ at their word given their integrity.
I'm sorry, but if the world is going to take Hamas casualty numbers at immediate face value, these articles are at least as credible.
But the idea you guys think a source that sees Sinwar's correspondences is going to be NAMED, is funny. Very very funny, like the BBC guy asking why the IDF didn't warn Hamas before coming. Guys really, how you name the source here and have them survive?
Sometimes, you take the WSJ at their word given their in
Well they don't have integrity for these types of stories which is the problem.
How many civilians do you accept that Israel killed? It sounds like to me you are using language to not accept/discuss that any were killed by Israel.
How many can we agree on without accepting hamas numbers?
It's undisputed and documented that Hamas asked residents, though no evidence of forced, to stand on rooftops to deter Israeli airstrikes during the 2008-2009 Israeli-Hamas war.
It's also undisputed Hamas asked civilians to stay put in areas under attack by Israel in 20214.
It's also undisputed Hamas asked residents to stay home after Israel warned Gazan residents air strikes are coming to northern Gaza with mass evacuation orders and leaflets.
It is also undisputed by now Hamas concentrated its command infrastructures in the most sensitive targets such as hospitals, UNRWA buildings, and schools.
What Sinwar purportedly said isn't even out of character for what Hamas has publicly said on camera throughout the years.
You're a self-deluding idiot if you don't think Hamas isn't intentionally tying their military assets to as many cilivian deaths as possible. They know the civilian deaths hurt Israel more than it hurts them because they don't give a flying **** about Gazan civilians. At this point, many members of Hamas (Sinwar included) probably have drunk enough kool-aid to actually believe it's an honor for those civilians to die as martyrs.
You're a self-deluding idiot if you don't think Hamas isn't intentionally tying their military assets to as many cilivian deaths as possible. They know the civilian deaths hurt Israel more than it hurts them because they don't give a flying **** about Gazan civilians. At this point, many members of Hamas (Sinwar included) probably have drunk enough kool-aid to actually believe it's an honor for those civilians to die as martyrs.
How many civilians do we agree on that Israel killed without using hamas numbers?
