Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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10-15k while killing 25-30k Hamas people or collaborators at this point.
The best ratio in the history of urban warfare. Something to base college course at west point on.
Even if we use the previous figures, 25k to 15k monsters, it would still be an exceptional ratio.
But now that we know many human shield are volunteers it's even better.
The IDF is conducting the most civilian-preserving warfare in the history of humankind.
It's incredible how moral they are
Well they don't have integrity for these types of stories which is the problem.
How many civilians do you accept that Israel killed? It sounds like to me you are using language to not accept/discuss that any were killed by Israel.
How many can we agree on without accepting hamas numbers?
I think a moral figure would be 50 civilians for one terrorist, given terrorists use human shields and you need to kill them as the utmost moral imperative (above all) anyway.
Given we are under 3 we are watching a miracle in real time.and btw: every single civilians who dies is 100% killed by HAMAS not by Israel. Not a single one of them would have died if Hamas hadn't waged terror on Israel or used civilians as shields.
Not one
Hamas is ultimately responsible for more Palestinian deaths than Israel, a lot more. Exact numbers? No idea. I'll let the big guy upstairs decide on that.
Hamas is ultimately responsible for more Palestinian deaths than Israel, a lot more. Exact numbers? No idea. I'll let the big guy upstairs decide on that.
Its fair of you. Your sentiments are fair. But ben shapiro said "Every drop of Palestinian blood is on hamas'. I though that was a terribly illogical justification. But I thought about it, and said its a fair sentiment.
The thought experiment. I claim is useful. Its obviously useful. Its part of game theory.
We want to ask, lets say the real underlying truth was there was a miltary threat underground. Or in the infrastructure. Perhaps something that nullified the dome. Or something that has geopolitical ramifications (ie underground territory/resources claims etc.).
Is that more of a justification for Palestinian deaths? I'm asking about how we are speaking to the justification via narrative A when we might find out the reality was B.
Its fair of you. Your sentiments are fair. But ben shapiro said "Every drop of Palestinian blood is on hamas'. I though that was a terribly illogical justification. But I thought about it, and said its a fair sentiment.
The thought experiment. I claim is useful. Its obviously useful. Its part of game theory.
We want to ask, lets say the real underlying truth was there was a miltary threat underground. Or in the infrastructure. Perh
Didn't read that from Shapiro but it's 100% correct.
If Hamas had done what make sense, IE 0 violence ever toward Israel (none has any justification) no Palestinian blood would have been spilled.
The justification for Palestinian deaths is Hamas has to be eradicated *at any cost* and with it every single person who even wondered about the possibility of hurting Israel, who lives in Gaza or Israel
Killed. Every single one of them. Nobody should be alive on the border of Israel who even entertains the idea of the possibility of doing anything violent against Israel
Didn't read that from Shapiro but it's 100% correct.
If Hamas had done what make sense, IE 0 violence ever toward Israel (none has any justification) no Palestinian blood would have been spilled.
The justification for Palestinian deaths is Hamas has to be eradicated *at any cost* and with it every single person who even wondered about the possibility of hurting Israel, who lives in Gaza or Israel
Killed. Every single one of them. Nobody shoul
Well no its not. Its a sentiment. Its not correct, its horrible justification. Its horrible logic. Its a gut reaction.
Israel doesn't then get a blanket pass to do any terrible thing it wants to otherwise innocent civilians. Not at all. Why would that be? thats not the same thing as noting the awful reality of collateral damage.
J you ask me to take you at face value, but not the WSJ? How does that work?
Can you point to the last time the WSJ lied about intercepted correspondences from internationally known terrorists? It's just possible I've missed all the times they blatantly did that. Since you seem to be implying it's a regular thing.
J you ask me to take you at face value, but not the WSJ? How does that work?
Can you point to the last time the WSJ lied about intercepted correspondences from internationally known terrorists? It's just possible I've missed all the times they blatantly did that. Since you seem to be implying it's a regular thing.
The WSJ is "globalist" so it's not trustworthy for all-right people.
Why do you care about how they vet sources.
They either agree with us or are the enemy, at this point the game is easy.
which in this case should be all the proof anyone needs then for a pro-Israel story. Anything left of that position has largely been pro-Palestinian. CNN and the WSJ jumping on this particular narrative is awfully out of character, for it to be a lie.
Well no its not. Its a sentiment. Its not correct, its horrible justification. Its horrible logic. Its a gut reaction.
Israel doesn't then get a blanket pass to do any terrible thing it wants to otherwise innocent civilians. Not at all. Why would that be? thats not the same thing as noting the awful reality of collateral damage.
No gut just pure logic. There is no blanket pass. They could have carpet bombing all the Gaza strip for months, until everyone was dead, while blockading ALL aid, but they didn't.
They did too much to save civilian lives.
But it clearly is never enough for people who don't want them to win.
Btw if you ever attack myself, my family, my relatives or my friends I don't care what your morals are I am going to do everything in my power to kill you, disregarding any colletaral damage, and it will be the most moral action of my life.
That's the rightwing ethos.
If you aren't willing to kill a whole country to defend your child are you even human?
J you ask me to take you at face value, but not the WSJ? How does that work?
Can you point to the last time the WSJ lied about intercepted correspondences from internationally known terrorists? It's just possible I've missed all the times they blatantly did that. Since you seem to be implying it's a regular thing.
Sorry I emphasized the wrong part in regard to this. I would like to see citations from sources etc. When its the news giving the narrative, we should admit that. Its just for balance, it doesn't invalidate it.
No gut just pure logic. There is no blanket pass. They could have carpet bombing all the Gaza strip for months, until everyone was dead, while blockading ALL aid, but they didn't.
They did too much to save civilian lives.
But it clearly is never enough for people who don't want them to win.
Btw if you ever attack myself, my family, my relatives or my friends I don't care what your morals are I am going to do everything in my power to kill you,
Is it right wing not to juxtapose it with the obvious extension that you completely agree with Palestinians rage in saying every drop of jew blood (im purposefully saying it with non-political rhetoric 'jew blood' mimicking how they might put it) that hamas spills is on Israel's hands.
We (you) are mixing up language and sentiment.
This is why the thought experiment is helpful. Imagine both sides realize a 3rd party was involved providing a hidden basis for the conflict. Then how do we feel about military response based on civilian rage in response to civilian based rage based on military response? Ben shapiro is fine with every drop of blood that he didn't even know, in this experiment, was provoked by a hidden party in the first place...
You see he would be far less justified in his rage.
WSJ has enjoyed a solid reputation longer than anybody in this thread has been alive
which in this case should be all the proof anyone needs then for a pro-Israel story. Anything left of that position has largely been pro-Palestinian. CNN and the WSJ jumping on this particular narrative is awfully out of character, for it to be a lie.
It's completely in character for them. They want sensationalism. Whether it's 40 beheaded babies, leaked terrorist correspondence or Palestinian prisoners being tortured in Israeli jails. Clicks need to be compiled.
One year after the Battle of Mosul, Iraqi authorities still didn't have very good estimates for civilian casualties. And these authorities actually controlled Mosul, and weren't forced to hide in tunnels most of the time.
The idea that Hamas has precise estimates basically in real time is completely ludicrous. And of course it says a lot that progressives and Muslims that challenge every single thing Israel claims (because they ostensibly
This is why I gave the Israeli figure as well for the low end. As it pertains to my post:
Yes Luciom might feel that one specific death warrants celebration, but there were many other deaths (whether going by Israel or Gaza's estimates) and it's unlikely those deatgs were as clear cut as the guy whose death he is cheering for.
It simply makes no sense to lie about Hamas rejecting proposal because the lie is so easily falsifiable and everyone involved (from the Americans to Hamas and the Qataris) could immediately falsify the lie.
It’s a lie you simply don’t make unless you know it to be not a lie.
It simply makes no sense to lie about Hamas rejecting proposal because the lie is so easily falsifiable and everyone involved (from the Americans to Hamas and the Qataris) could immediately falsify the lie.
It’s a lie you simply don’t make unless you know it to be not a lie.
This point was lost on me through the complaint about sources...
I wouldn't reject the truth of that but I think both sides mutually don't want the conflict to stop.
The civilians aren't really the consideration of either is the problem.
It's undisputed and documented that Hamas asked residents, though no evidence of forced, to stand on rooftops to deter Israeli airstrikes during the 2008-2009 Israeli-Hamas war.
It's also undisputed Hamas asked civilians to stay put in areas under attack by Israel in 20214.
It's also undisputed Hamas asked residents to stay home after Israel warned Gazan residents air strikes are coming to northern Gaza with mass evacuation orders and leafle
which of these things makes it ok to kill civilians at a rate of 10x that of enemy targets?
The left is loosing their you know what over the fantastic work by the IDF to rescue the hostages.
Gazans! If you are in the area of where hostages are being held let the IDF know immediately and your life may be spared. It's that simple. See something, say something.
