Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
No **** Sherlock. There are different levels of it though, and most humans are prone to some form of it from time to time, a bias we've inherited from our ancient ancestors.
If it is evolutionary then we should discuss why it helped our ancestors and maybe we should accept some form of what you consider racism aren't bad?
Because for me whatever works for long term survival is inherently the definition of what is moral and viceversa
Nitpicking.
Do you see the difference between
Some Americans referring to Mexicans as rapists
and
Some Americans referring to the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys or some Germans referring to the English as insalaffen (island apes)
There is no difference for normal people, it's only in the absurd woke model where it's ok to be racist against the purported dominant group that a difference can arise.
That ideology is pure evil (as is everything generated by Marxism)
indeed. And also true ont he other side where they end up supporting terrorist organsiations. A descent into a destructive cycle of 'had enough'
A feedback cycle more than a 2 way street. The cycle has to be broken. Politics.
And it can only end after one side loses enough people and you force an unconditional surrender upon them with military occupation for as long as it takes to normalize them.
And given on side is our ally the other a proxy of one of our enemies, there is no option other than being pro Israel and allowing them to do whatever it takes to eliminate the threat forever
If it is evolutionary then we should discuss why it helped our ancestors and maybe we should accept some form of what you consider racism aren't bad?
Because for me whatever works for long term survival is inherently the definition of what is moral and viceversa
lol no we shouldn't at all but I'm aware this is your favourite topic.
Xenophobia was probably useful to ancient tribes when there were large risks associated with letting other tribes in. Nowadays we have language and travel that tells us there's nothing to fear any more, those of us capable of overriding our prehistoric urges to hate people who are different to us anyway.
What do you think of people who want to deny all women rights, and people who perform female genital mutilations, do you think it's prehistoric to be disgusted by them and refusing to associate with them? What about people who hang homosexuals?
I think they have to abide by the same laws that everyone else in their new host country does.
What do you think of people who want to deny all women rights, and people who perform female genital mutilations, do you think it's prehistoric to be disgusted by them and refusing to associate with them? What about people who hang homosexuals?
Are you specifically referring to conservative American men?
Where does it happen that immigrants vote to change laws in favour of FGM and hanging gay people?
You sound terrified bruv.
No I didn't. And I didn't specify whether he's Jewish or not.
The movement of tolerance and inclusion is wondering why calling the only country self-determined by jews "psychotic, racist pieces of ****" would come across as it does, to a Jew.
Guys do better. Just do better.
The nearest comparator to Israel is Pakistan, a state created around the same time for a similar reason (as a homeland for Indian Muslims who might otherwise tend to be oppressed by the Hindu majority), and with far more violence -- over two million dead in a couple of months at the time of Partition. Pakistan, like Israel, has become a nuclear state, but, unlike Israel, it's a rogue nuclear state since a Pakistani sold nuclear secrets to North Korea. Pakistan has fought a number of border wars and is involved in a territorial dispute (with India, over Kashmir). Its history has been quite troubled and unstable, with the odd military dictatorship thrown in. It was the state sponsor and protector of Al-Qaeda and some of its laws don't meet human-rights norms. Yet, oddly, no one ever questions Pakistan's 'right to exist' the way they do Israel's. Israel, the only Jewish state, is also the only state whose 'right to exist' is questioned, even though states don't exist by right but only by fact and plenty of other states are pretty unsavoury in various ways.
The nearest comparator to Israel is Pakistan, a state created around the same time for a similar reason (as a homeland for Indian Muslims who might otherwise tend to be oppressed by the Hindu majority), and with far more violence -- over two million dead in a couple of months at the time of Partition. Pakistan, like Israel, has become a nuclear state, but, unlike Israel, it's a rogue nuclear state since a Pakistani sold nuclear secrets to N
I think both Israel and Pakistan have a very important right to exist, and moving (voluntarily) indian Muslims to Pakistan prevented decades of complete agony for a billion+ people.
Forcing people who hate each others share a polity is moral horror
Yet, oddly, no one ever questions Pakistan's 'right to exist' the way they do Israel's.
Yeah, no one is actually questioning Israel's "right to exist," that's just a shamelessly dishonest mantra people trot out when they need to shut down tough questions about the slaughter of tens of thousands of people. Does Pakistan actually have a "right to exist?" According to what authority? Does the Roman Empire have a right to exist? Palestine? It's all just a mindless word game.
It’s not a mindless word game to Hamas.
If Pakistan had a sizeable Hindu population that it treated as second class citizens, denying them their own state and breaching international laws in taking land from them and killing an order of magnitude more Hindus than the Muslims who were killed, maybe people would question whether its creation had been such a good idea after all.
It's a mindless word game that the IDF apologists insist on forcing into the conversation. "Israel has a right to exist, therefore the wholesale killings will go on" --it doesn't make a lick of sense, it doesn't follow at all and it's not supposed to, it's a thought-killing mantra designed to end the conversation.
If Pakistan had a sizeable Hindu population that it treated as second class citizens, denying them their own state and breaching international laws in taking land from them and killing an order of magnitude more Hindus than the Muslims who were killed, maybe people would question whether its creation had been such a good idea after all.
or maybe people would say "see, these Hindus should be in India not in Pakistan".
there is an Hindu state it is called India.
and there are many Arab states where Palestinians can go to live their Arab lives in Arab societies that share their Arab values. they move and the problem is solved.
It's a mindless word game that the IDF apologists insist on forcing into the conversation. "Israel has a right to exist, therefore the wholesale killings will go on" --it doesn't make a lick of sense, it doesn't follow at all and it's not supposed to, it's a thought-killing mantra designed to end the conversation.
I’d like to know who is in charge of deciding who has the right to exist or not
If Pakistan had a sizeable Hindu population that it treated as second class citizens, denying them their own state and breaching international laws in taking land from them and killing an order of magnitude more Hindus than the Muslims who were killed, maybe people would question whether its creation had been such a good idea after all.
You dont have a good grasp of Indian/Pakistan history, do you? This is more or less what happened and is still happening. You should probably familiarize yourself with the creation of Pakistan and genocide of non Muslims that took place during said formation.
When Pakistan was created could you imagine if the rest of the world insisted all the displaced Hindus could live in Kashmir, where foreign nations would provide military support for Hindus to constantly attack Pakistan over 80 years while promising to eventually destroy Pakistan. And Pakistan would be told they just had to suck it up and live with it.
Of course not, it is completely absurd, just as it is for the Palestinian situation.
And this is on top of the tremendous amount of murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing that took place under various Muslim regimes against Hindus in the last few hundred years, when Muslims were in charge. In totality, Muslim holocausts against Hindus are probably numerically the greatest numerical genocide in the history of humanity.
The nearest comparator to Israel is Pakistan, a state created around the same time for a similar reason (as a homeland for Indian Muslims who might otherwise tend to be oppressed by the Hindu majority), and with far more violence -- over two million dead in a couple of months at the time of Partition. Pakistan, like Israel, has become a nuclear state, but, unlike Israel, it's a rogue nuclear state since a Pakistani sold nuclear secrets to N
You seem to be making an argument Israel is being treated grossly unfairly by the world. If so, I wont disagree. There can be no peaceful solution until the world starts treating Israel better; and stops supporting Palestinian/Arab belligerence.
