Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Right, but you’re talking about a hypothetical social problem potentially involving many kids and several adults.
I think it's a problem even if it only happens once, and there would be no need for a coordinated effort between those evil adults. All they would need is a knife or a sharp rock and a hatred for the independent agency of women.
Yeah, I don't think that's the reason for their invasion (and neither do you). But even if it were, the Israelis apparently believe their cause is just, which is what you said was true about the Palestinians. Usually both sides in any conflict believe that.
Well that’s the point of this thread and politics in general. Rather than throwing our hands in the air when there’s conflict and declaring all sides are valid we discuss which causes are just and which are not, and it’s pretty clear, or should be, that Israel doesnt have a leg to stand on.
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has dissolved his six-member war cabinet, an Israeli official confirmed on Monday.
Reuters reports that it was a widely expected move that came after the departure from government of the centrist former general Benny Gantz.
Netanyahu had faced demands from the nationalist-religious partners in his coalition, far-right finance minister Bezalel Smotrich and national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir to be included in the war cabinet, a move which could have intensified strains with international partners including the US.
Jonathan Lis reports for Haaretz that “some of the issues previously discussed by the war cabinet will now be transferred for discussion in the security cabinet, but sensitive decisions will be addressed in a smaller consultation forum”.
The move comes as protesters against Netanyahu’s government and handling of the war with Hamas are staging a week of demonstrations with the aim of forcing an election before the first year anniversary of the 7 October Hamas attack.
I think it's a problem even if it only happens once, and there would be no need for a coordinated effort between those evil adults. All they would need is a knife or a sharp rock and a hatred for the independent agency of women.
If you’re talking about one isolated incident you should probably focus your concern on other crimes committed against children that are far more numerous and often committed by Americans
Genocide
Israel’s prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has reportedly criticised plans announced by the military to hold daily tactical pauses in fighting along one of the main roads into Gaza to facilitate the delivery of aid. “When the prime minister heard the reports of an 11-hour humanitarian pause in the morning, he turned to his military secretary and made it clear that this was unacceptable to him,” an unnamed Israeli official told media late on Sunday
The Guardian
True, so I don't blame them for that. But in the future they could have stopped immigration from the countries those guys were from, instead of just treating everyone who boards a plane like a criminal for the next 25 years.
Isn’t that exactly what trump tried to do? I assume you supported that policy.
Well that’s the point of this thread and politics in general. Rather than throwing our hands in the air when there’s conflict and declaring all sides are valid we discuss which causes are just and which are not, and it’s pretty clear, or should be, that Israel doesnt have a leg to stand on.
Well for us it's the polar opposite, starting from the fact that our allies causes are just definitionally, our enemy causes are unjust definitionally.
Why would you consider Palestinians your enemy?
Hamas, because it's financed by one of the west arch-enemies, Iran. A sanctioned country by the USA so officially, uncontroversially an enemy to be clear.
That alone for me is sufficient to claim you can never (in a normative sense: it should be criminal to do so) in any way or form support any action which helps Hamas (if you are in a NATO country).
The soverein will of the People of the USA (which is second to none, absolute, within the limits of the constitution), as represented by Congress and Potus, determined Israel is an ally of the USA, and Iran is an enemy of the USA.
That's all it takes to decide which side to take if you are american, or a citizen of a country allied to america, in the I/P conflict.
That's quite the forelock tugging you're doing there. Do you ever express your own opinion if it contradicts that of your sworn daddy nation or are you always happy to suppress it?
The US government considers them to be an enemy because they're constantly attacking one of its allies.
But then they also send aid there.
It does seem pretty stupid to me that we're trying to get food to palestine so they don't starve, but at the same time sending arms to Israel to kill them.
I would prefer we stopped doing either and let them sort it out by themselves - as I have said previously, I think Israeli is the worst US ally (though Turkey is a close second).
That's quite the forelock tugging you're doing there. Do you ever express your own opinion if it contradicts that of your sworn daddy nation or are you always happy to suppress it?
Yes but then i don't riot if i don't like the democratic outcome nor i help the enemy.
For example i think it's wrong for the west to be in bed with KSA. The majority (as represented by parliaments in western nations) disagree. I suck it up and i don't riot because of this.
I make my arguments when the topic is discussed and that's it, because i am not eversive.
In war discussions there is a time to decide the course of action, where debate is imperative and disagremeent absolutely acceptable, and then a moral imperative to be all united whatever course of action is chosen democratically, with no ifs and no buts.
Undermining a war effort because you disagree with the opinion of your citizens is treasonous and eversive.
The US government considers them to be an enemy because they're constantly attacking one of its allies.
But then they also send aid there.
It does seem pretty stupid to me that we're trying to get food to palestine so they don't starve, but at the same time sending arms to Israel to kill them.
I would prefer we stopped doing either and let them sort it out by themselves - as I have said previously, I think Israeli is the worst US ally (though
I don't believe you consider Israel worse than KSA
It’s not much of an option. Some people would prefer to die martyrs than have their children and grandchildren have to live like that under hostile occupation.
It’s ironic that the people in America who say theyd be prepared to use guns and violence to protect their rights against a malignant government don’t seem to understand the Palestinians’ predicament.
Well if they recognize Israel and come with some good faith negotiation there is a path out of occupation. There is a lot of international goodwill for Gaza at the moment and can get international actors to help negotiate something and enforce it against Israel but it means admitting defeat 1st. Ego and pride is a hell of a thing.
And lol at the American cosplayers that think they're going to do **** when push comes to shove against their "tyrrnacal" govt
I mean Israel will lose the battle eventually but we're talking generations worth of fighting and death until that day.
If Israel is doomed to lose the battle eventually why doesn't the same argument apply to them now? Admit defeat and accept negotiated terms.
They have nuclear weapons, they aren't doomed to lose the battle at all.
I had never heard the term KSA before, but looks like you're talking about Saudi Arabia. I certainly don't like them either but I guess I wasn't thinking of them exactly being a US ally. I would like to see the US wash their hands of SA as well, and have been saying so since 2001. It seems like the only reason we were ever allied with them was because of their oil, which we no longer need.
There is also the UAE and Pakistan competing for the honor of being the worst allies of the US.
If Israel is doomed to lose the battle eventually why doesn't the same argument apply to them now? Admit defeat and accept negotiated terms.
Because they'll be just fine for 100+ years. Even if the US/Europe cut them off for weapons, Russia/China I'm sure will be happy to sell but one state ain't happening.
Foreseeable future is a lot more bleak for Gaza if staying the same path.
Aside from the moral problems of such an approach, it's completely unrealistic here. This should be evident by the large amounts of people complaining that Gaza continues to get support, which is largely beyond the control of Israel. Gaza will never reach a point where they have no hope of getting rid of Israel.
If attempting to stop all violence against Israel through attacks against Gaza which result in an unacceptable amount of civilian d
I mean this seems to be the official line but reality to the contrary is staring at us in the face.
Jordan helped Israel shoot down Iranian drones.
Syrians don’t do jack **** to Israel and renounced their claims.
Even the Hezbollah has mostly backed off, completely refraining from kidnapping Israelis if nothing else, after Israel just went ballistic (killing thousands for two kidnapped soldiers and like 7 more dead?).
I had never heard the term KSA before, but looks like you're talking about Saudi Arabia. I certainly don't like them either but I guess I wasn't thinking of them exactly being a US ally. I would like to see the US wash their hands of SA as well, and have been saying so since 2001. It seems like the only reason we were ever allied with them was because of their oil, which we no longer need.
The USA sells KSA weapons. KSA is the biggest foreign buyer of american weapons.
There is a mutual defense assistance agreement in place since 1951.
There is a Trade Investment Framework Agreement in place since 2003.
Because they'll be just fine for 100+ years. Even if the US/Europe cut them off for weapons, Russia/China I'm sure will be happy to sell but one state ain't happening.
Foreseeable future is a lot more bleak for Gaza if staying the same path.
Israel is also unlikely to agree with our assessment on their long term viability. It's not like Israel has crossed some line and there's no coming back even if they are making huge mistakes here.
I mean this seems to be the official line but reality to the contrary is staring at us in the face.
Jordan helped Israel shoot down Iranian drones.
Syrians don’t do jack **** to Israel and renounced their claims.
Even the Hezbollah has mostly backed off, completely refraining from kidnapping Israelis if nothing else, after Israel just went ballistic (killing thousands for two kidnapped soldiers and like 7 more dead?).
What is contrary to the "official line" here?
