Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
I had not read that. The fact that Putin has to go there at all is pretty clear indication that what you're saying is true.
Life in the fast lane
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/34585
Russian Ministers Ejected from Conference Room After Diplomatic Faux Pas in Pyongyang
A live broadcast on North Korean state TV saw seven members of Putin’s delegation thrown out for unknowingly breaking protocol by entering before the “Supreme Leader.”
The whole thing is so absurd.
There's some speculation that this is to open the door for N Koreans to fight in Ukraine which is obviously awful. I wonder how the West would respond as this would be a huge escalation.
Currently 100% speculation though, and most seem to think the pact itself is meaningless.
let me preface this by saying that Jon Stewart is ofc provably and objectively wrong. as BGP has showed many times with his amazing logic. and I am not posting this to start a discussion on his idea here, as the mods have wisely decided that blame should never be given to the USA. in this conflict at least.
but my question is, does this prove that Jon Stewart is a Russian asset? and how much do we think Russian assets have infiltrated the USA and the West in the media and beyond?
as an aside, it is quite scary that a formerly milquetoast liberal mainstream pundit is now spreading Russian propaganda via the USA's own airwaves.
let me preface this by saying that Jon Stewart is ofc provably and objectively wrong. as BGP has showed many times with his amazing logic. and I am not posting this to start a discussion on his idea here, as the mods have wisely decided that blame should never be given to the USA. in this conflict at least.
but my question is, does this prove that Jon Stewart is a Russian asset? and how much do we think Russian assets have infiltrated th
It would if it was coupled with many other pro russian takes in general which i don't think it's the case for him specifically.
He isn't milquetoast anymore, do you remember his epic piece on wuhan lab origins of covid?
Where does Jon Stewart say what the Tweet claims?
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/34585
Russian Ministers Ejected from Conference Room After Diplomatic Faux Pas in Pyongyang
A live broadcast on North Korean state TV saw seven members of Putin’s delegation thrown out for unknowingly breaking protocol by entering before the “Supreme Leader.”
The whole thing is so absurd.
In fairness our Saudi "allies" pull similar power moves whenever we send delegations there. And I am sure RT and Al Jazeera mock us when this happens.
Yeah I listened to it, it's good!
As to your quote: that in no way implies Stewart thinks USA is 'to blame' for Russia invading Ukraine. Stewart did not say that in this clip.
USA did not do things perfectly, but that does not mean they are to blame for Russia invading Ukraine. It does not mean this is a proxy war. This is 100% an unprovoked invasion which is what Stewart would be referring to when he said "taking advantage of" in this instance (he is obviously referring to several conflicts).
when Stewart says that USA policies have "created" this in some way and by some means, he is absolving Russia of some blame. we all know that Russia is 100% to blame so there is no way that the USA could have helped to create this in any way.
No. It means USA should have known better. It means USA is to blame for letting things get to the point that an obviously bad actor will act bad because they cannot pass up an opportunity.
People claiming USA lured Russia into a proxy war are trying to assign a malicious intent to USA which is not there.
Saying that USA forced Russia to invade is an attempt at diverting the responsibility for Russia's decision onto USA.
Stewart doesn't say anything similar to these arguments. Saying USA's policies helped create this situation does not mean Russia was moral for invading, and it in no way necessitates that the outcome of these policies were intentional.
So no, what Stewart is saying is not propaganda. Misrepresenting it to claim he says something which he doesn't and then amplifying that lie are absolutely forms of Russian propaganda though.
FWIW if Steward did claim what the tweet says, he would be wrong. Him being Jon Stewart would not matter, he would still be wrong.
if someone "should have known better", they can still be at fault and blameful. but Stewart says nothing of the sort about "knowing better".
when you accuse a country of "policies that create chaos" then that sure sounds like blame to me.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/34585
Russian Ministers Ejected from Conference Room After Diplomatic Faux Pas in Pyongyang
A live broadcast on North Korean state TV saw seven members of Putin’s delegation thrown out for unknowingly breaking protocol by entering before the “Supreme Leader.”
The whole thing is so absurd.
not to be a dick but pretty much any person in charge has to do this. You cannot big dick the ruler, or be even percieved as big dicking them. They are lucky they didnt get killed but N.K. needs russia so that will never happen.
I was also shocked that russia had such a tall person there as putins attache, that is not something the N Koreans like at all.
Yeah I listened to it, it's good!
As to your quote: that in no way implies Stewart thinks USA is 'to blame' for Russia invading Ukraine. Stewart did not say that in this clip.
USA did not do things perfectly, but that does not mean they are to blame for Russia invading Ukraine. It does not mean this is a proxy war. This is 100% an unprovoked invasion which is what Stewart would be referring to when he said "taking advantage of" in this instan
I cant, this seems like ignoring someones clear remark.
when Stewart says that USA policies have "created" this in some way and by some means, he is absolving Russia of some blame. we all know that Russia is 100% to blame so there is no way that the USA could have helped to create this in any way.
Thats one take, about russia being 100%
if someone "should have known better", they can still be at fault and blameful. but Stewart says nothing of the sort about "knowing better".
when you accuse a country of "policies that create chaos" then that sure sounds like blame to me.
if policies create chaos, then lack of policies means lack of chaos
so the policies are responsible for some of the chaos
Pulling a power move on a delegation is a bit different from doing it to the party of the head of state of your new best ally.
Saudi Arabia doing similar to a delegation on a routine visit is very different from what's happened here.
I under Putin is in a bad spot right now, but humbling himself like this with one of the worst people in the world, despised by most Russians, for what? I get NK can supply a bit of stuff but their economy is a joke and they exist only at the behest of China.
is Putin doing this because China asked him to? if so why?
Pulling a power move on a delegation is a bit different from doing it to the party of the head of state of your new best ally.
Saudi Arabia doing similar to a delegation on a routine visit is very different from what's happened here.
how has Russian media covered it? from that article, there are plenty of plausible reasons that it was not a power move and rather some logistical procedure.
Worst case scenario is Putin fixes his manpower issues with north Koreans. Seems unlikely though.
does Putin have manpower issues? twitter said that it was Ukraine that had those issues over a year ago. and now mainstream Western media is regurgitating this Russian propaganda about Ukraine needing troops.
Yes, Putin has major manpower issues. They both have manpower issues.
oh wow. didnt know that. thanks for the proof.
