The costs of trans visibility

I don't find your hypotheticals thought provoking; they're hateful. How does discriminating against trans protect women?

With few exceptions, we do now and historically always have considered sex, not gender. This has an inherent problem because about 1 in 1000 people are born intersex and sex only has 2 options. My solution is to simply stop segregation and make the world a more inclusive for all. If we don't, the second best option is probably to continue with sex segregation with a third intersex category.

They are not hypotheticals, i linked you a real life example.

There is no inherent problem if 1 in a couple of thousands people don't get precise assignation of their sex. It's not a problem for society, and we shouldn't change how we live because of the existence of very rare people.

Putting men and women in prison togheter isn't "inclusive", it's just getting a lot of women raped (and beaten and so on).

There might be special case which, if it doesn't cost too much for us, we could maybe accomodate, but it would require denying subjective choice, which is something the left doesn't want to do.

So until trans-ness is to be defined by self-identification alone, we shoulnd't allow that to mean we treat someone differently from his biological sex.

Move toward dropping the absurd self-identification thing and then if we can agree on objective, measurable elements we can allow the very rare biological man in women prison (for example if he has no dick)

you can easily fill in that blank with dozens upon dozens of cohorts of humans who would not fare well living amongst the general prison population - yet oddly, we still put those convicted criminals in the same prison anyway - you beginning to see the hole in your argument yet?

Unclear what lolwat proposes to do to avoid the violent criminals in jail be violent with other inmates. It's not like we never tried to fix that, it has been a problem since prisons exist and there is no fix.

I mean there is a fix but you guys don't like it, which is abundant use of the death penalty for all violent crimes, and on the other side, abundant use of house arrest instead of prison for all non violent crimes.

Oh btw keep in mind trans women in prison are overwhelmingly there for sexual violence related crimes (at least in UK data).

That, or just stop caring what happens to violent criminals after you lock them up (and then throw away the key).

It's hard to believe you people actually exist in the world. You are completely void of empathy and evil.

You want us to have empathy for rapists and murderers? IMO having empathy for them is evil.

I can't even grasp what ya'll are suggesting. It's basically: literally murder everyone or lock up everyone forever. Show me a person who's never commit an act of violence. What does this have to do with sex or gender? Literally nothing. Ya'll just want people to hate and look down on.

Well you have to be pretty sure you lock violent criminals exclusively with other violent criminals though, which isn't as clear cut as one might think, especially for state prisons it's hard to do.

And there are judicial mistakes especially in early stages, including denial of bail, or bail not being affordable or set too high for someone, i care about innocents being massacred among violent people because they are temporarily jailed there (which is why i would use house arrest a lot lot more until final verdict).

"club fed" exists because you can put there non violent criminals which might go back to be useful members of society throughout the nation and put them all togheter. The analogous in states is harder to accomplish, especially in small states.

That until you do eliminate the most violent criminals forever, they will be in prison. And you don't want any of them among women.

Do you realize than in your model a serial rapist and murderer can self identify as a woman and be jailed among women which yes did bad things, but maybe are in because they killed their abusive husband after years of being tortured? you want those women IN THE SAME CELL FOR 10+ years with the serial rapist? who's lacking empathy exactly?

Lots of people have never committed an act of violence. But we're not talking about people who who slugged somebody once. We're talking about rapists and murderers.
There are very few women who fall into that category; it's almost all men. For the very few female murderers, I don't care if they're mixed in with men and get abused.

Violent criminals shouldn't be in the same prison as others who were convicted of lesser offenses. I don't want to hate them or look down on them; I want them not to exist, or at least to be able to forget about them because I know they'll never see the light of day.

I do have empathy even for criminal low lifers with no chance of ever becoming useful members of society ever again, which is why i am willing for the state to put them out of their misery, as death is by far better than life in prison, it's far more humane.

If i wanted them to suffer as much as possible i would advocate for a system pretty close to what exists right now.

I am not even advocating for painful deaths.

This is not a reasonable position. The judicial system is a system designed to punish, but also rehabilitate our fellow humans. Whether you like it or not the rapists and murderers will return to society and potentially even be your neighbors. We should try to design prisons that effectively reintegrate them to society.

No one, not even you are irredeemable.

lolwat, should there be separate prisons for short and skinny people?

what about people who are of a race which is uncommon in US prisons and will likely have difficulty finding a racial group for protection?

should asians, natives, south asians, & arabs have their own separate populations for protection from the white/black/latino cliques?

if a korean guy in ohio commits a crime, should he serve time in the california system where there's going to be a higher likelihood of other asians he can join for protection?

he is asking why you want special treatment of intersex people and not of amputees, dwarfs, and other very rare people with special characteristics that clearly make them a target of violence more than random in prisons

what luciom said, also the 1 in 1000 are intersex is fake, it's been discussed ad nauseum itt, that often quoted line is based on a study which included dozens of genetic defects that nobody in their right mind would classify as intersex - check this out https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264...

Treating people equally is not special treatment. We currently divide by sex and this excludes people who are born intersex -- which is a significant number of people. If we also segregate intersex, then trans people could fit in. I don't think this is a good idea, but it's possible. I do think we should end sex segregation so people stop can stop using it as an excuse to be mean to trans people.

lol what?

Transphobia today is exemplified by people like Luciom who insist they don't hate trans people, they just want to make it so they don't exist legally to protect women or children.

What's your plan to house women+men all togheter, how do you protect the women? how do you guarantee the basic privacy of intimate body parts? not sure you realize you don't have changing rooms in prisons, nor private bathrooms

they exist, they simply don't deserve any special treatment, they still have a biological sex, and that's what we shall use to determine if they are women or men everytime we decide it's relevant to determine that.

And stop the non-sense "phobia" thing, there is no fear involved in the discussion at all. Leftist semantical rape of using x-phobia to mean "someone who doesn't agree with me on x" should stop. stop raping words.

There's no point in discussing it because in the US our judicial system is a mess stacked against the poor designed to keep them in the system for life. We'd have to do a lot to reform prisons and the justice system in the US. It won't ever happen.

discuss it in other countries.

For example let's take Denmark, one of the favourite countries by center-leftists everywhere right?

https://www.barrons.com/news/trans-woman...

A Danish trans woman who changed their legal gender while in prison but did not undergo gender-affirming surgery must serve her sentence in a men's prison, an appeals court ruled Wednesday.

The 62-year-old changed her legal gender from male to female in 2015, while serving a sentence for aggravated rape among other things.

In its ruling released Wednesday, Denmark's Eastern High Court found that the prisoner would pose "a not insignificant security risk for the female inmates".

The inmate had taken the Danish prison service and Hestedvester prison, in greater Copenhagen, to court, but both the district and higher court ruled that she must serve her sentence in a unit for men.

Danish law requires that an examination of an inmate, which involves undressing, must be carried out by a person of the same sex.

But the court said that the inmate being "strip-searched by men" and needing to "provide a urine sample" under the supervision of males did not violate the law on the execution of sentences, since it found that reference to gender in the law should be "understood as the biological sex".

The Eastern High court also ruled that the inmate's placement in a male unit did not violate her rights as it was not based on a lack of recognition of the legal gender, but on a security assessment

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If your stereotypical perfect example of democratic socialist country AGREES WITH ME, MAYBE YOU ARE THE BADDIES, and it's not "trans-phobic" to want people with dicks to be imprisoned with other people with dicks, rather it's heavily misogynistic to ask for people with dicks to be imprisoned with women