Israel/Palestine thread

I agree , does sound antisemitic to me

Did you actually read the tweet? During a battle when responding in real time to a surprise attack, I doubt most people would construe a military command willing to sacrifice some of their own soldiers to meet some tactical objective as "murder."

That being said, I am pretty confident if Gaza was an open society with a free press willing and able to accurately report on and criticize Hamas (it certainly is not); the regular reports of moral transgressions by Hamas would be magnitudes worse than the IDF. Even with no honest press to speak of to report on it, it is pretty clear this is the case.

Back to the old reliable any criticism of Israel or its institutions is antisemitic, I see.

the fact is that the killing and raping of israeli civilians on oct 7 was carried out by hamas terrorists, not by the IDF, and no amount of forum posts will make it otherwise

damn, he spittin

I dunno is killing nearly 200k people uniquely evil?

well it isn't, because it's been illegally occupied by the iof for decades

true, it is not, because the iof has spent the last 9 months assassinating every journalist they can find, and their families. and all the infrastructure has been destroyed

American volunteer doctor couldnt even bring a few suitcases of supplies

The IDF has been doing a wonderful job. This is evidenced by the fact that there has not been another Oct 7 style invasion nor any additional hostages taken.

Glassing the entire ME could also prevent another hostage take but that also wouldnt prove evidence of a wonderful job.

Kinda weird to make that post a few hours after one of the most respected Western medical outlets put the death numbers at between 112188 and 560940.

Also, your definition isn't even accurate. The point of all of this bloodshed is, per the Israeli govt itself, to destroy Hamas and bring back the hostages. Neither of those things are rotely close to reality.

and something to realize with the Lancet calculation, is that the ~38k number they use is not accurate. they are extrapolating off of a number that is already a woeful undercount. is that factored into their empirical calculations? I tend to think that with 10s of thousands of people buried alive or blown to bits and the stringent requirements for the KHamas health ministry to report that their numbers are already necessarily lesser than the conflicts they are using as a guideline.

anyway, once again I get tired of being correct. its been known since Feb the numbers were a massive undercount. this was laughed at by certain people in this thread who have since run away it seems.

That fact that they are conducting this war without resorting to that is even more commendable.

bro what. they take hostages all the time. in fact, they just tortured one to death a few days ago bc they wanted his son to turn himself in. on the other hand, Hamas literally fed the dog of a hostage.

I read the article. It is very shoddy academic science. If that was an undergraduate public health assignment, I would give it a very low grade.

There is no "empirical calculations" at all. They are estimating "indirect deaths" without even bothering to define what an indirect death is, how it is determined, or providing any basis for their estimation range. And this is on top of using Hamas made up numbers as a "direct death" baseline to guesstimate "indirect deaths."

I knew the Lancet had been politically captured and the quality of its science had suffered horribly as a result during the Covid reporting. But this political propaganda masquerading as science is a new low.

Hamas's numbers are a massive undercount bc they have strict reporting requirements and there are very few places left that can count the dead.

are these magic bombs that dont kill people? what do you think the kill rate is per bomb? like half a person?

I can't believe you people are still in here spouting this nonsense.

Also they want to make sure nobody from Gaza can ever conduct an October 7th like attack again. This part has already been a 100% success. In fact, they are almost done with operations in Gaza and will be turning their attention to the north.

by Victor P

as if on cue. (UN report mentioned this too)

again, we have no idea how many civilians were killed or by whom.

But we know because of whom.

It could have been a lot less deaths if Hamas gave back the hostages. This is what necessitates the wrecking of Gaza. "Oh you all are gonna hide them in tunnels? Well, here we go".

If your opinion is Hamas numbers are a massive undercount that is fine. But citing that paper as "empirical evidence" to support your opinion is farcical.

I actually am really curious about the procedure for how a "scientific" manuscript makes its way into the Lancet. I assume they have an editorial process. That paper really went through three direct contributors and multiple editors with no one bothering to suggest they should define what an indirect death is, how it is determined/measured, and cite whatever evidence they used to come to their range? I even clicked on the #9 link, with the presumption it would answer one or all of these questions, and instead it is a 300 page PDF on drug crime, where I have no clue how it is relevant at all.

I wouldn't let a 10 year old get away with such a poor job of citing. How in the world does something like that get published in Lancet? It really boggles the mind.

You think they would have come up with a different strategy by now. They need to let go of their egos and as you mentioned take the L. They continue to create a hell for their children to grow up in. It's time to realize that resistance is futile. It's only gonna get worse and worse for them.

Well, I think there are various levels of intent.

At the primary level there is a clear intent to severely weaken Hamas (and other militants, including civilian) military capabilities against Israel, now and in the future. And there is clearly a desire to find hostages, although no realistic plan to do so.

On a deeper level though, it is a clear message to Hamas and their allies that Israel is changing the incentive paradigm, and signaling that attacking Israel, including kidnapping Israelis, is going to endanger so severe a response that no rationale actor should attempt it moving forward; unless their actual goal is a full scale war.

For many years Israel fought with one hand behind their back due to world pressure. Now Israel has decided that enough is enough. A rational nation won't mess with Israel. Islamists aren't so rational.