Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
So like I said, we will give them f16s to use once we control the skies. And it will be 100-200 not 5
At present the number of fighters on offer is 85. Ukraine doesn't control its own skies now, hence the amount of Russian bombing, but the F-16s and additional Patriot batteries should address this. The presence of NATO and French E-3 AWACS aircraft, and British RC-135s, is publicly known, but exactly how they mesh with the Ukrainian military is not.
Ok so I was off by 15%
They will prob let them know where the bad guys are before the bad guys know where they are.
ukraine does like 5 war crimes for every 100 russia does and people complain that russia is being treated unfairly
Ukraine also executes far fewer Russians than Russia executes, this stands true if you narrow this down to just executions that happen in Ukraine. That's not really the point though, there's no room for this kind of behavior. It serves no positive purpose and it is not justice, or at least not a form that Ukraine's allies agree with. Furthermore Russians are already fighting to the death, which is horrible for Ukraine. If there were not reports like this, would that change and would people surrender more easily? Possibly. It couldn't hurt. FWIW another major reason they don't surrender is because of Wagner's "sledgehammer negotiations"; when they posted a video of executing a returned Russian POW with a sledgehammer.
There was two videos this week that I saw of Russia murdering Ukrainian POWs btw. It's a top down policy, not a rogue person.
damn did Russia just take a page out of the Western playbook and bomb a hospital on purpose? maybe they were inspired by Israel.
No, they took a play out of Russia's playbook, which should be pretty obvious to anyone following this war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_st....
By November 21, 2022, there were at least 703 attacks on Ukrainian healthcare facilities with 144 such facilities completely destroyed by Russia
By February 22, 2024, the WHO regional direct confirmed that there had been "over 1500" attacks reported.
you can see the individual attacks here: https://extranet.who.int/ssa/LeftMenu/Pu...
This isn't even new to Ukraine, it's a continuation of what they've done in Syria, Libya, and Grozny:
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/1995/...
https://reliefweb.int/report/russian-fed...
At present the number of fighters on offer is 85. Ukraine doesn't control its own skies now, hence the amount of Russian bombing, but the F-16s and additional Patriot batteries should address this. The presence of NATO and French E-3 AWACS aircraft, and British RC-135s, is publicly known, but exactly how they mesh with the Ukrainian military is not.
It'll help, I don't know about "address". It will be interesting to see how much F16s are going to help with Russia's strike campaign. I think they can hunt down some cruise missiles, but I doubt they will be able to do much else, especially at the start. The thing that needs to happen is allowing Ukraine to strike Russian airfields, it's outrageous that Biden refuses to let it happen.
There's no way we could possibly know that off of a couple videos with the fog of war but im open to see numbers. generally invaders are less liked then defenders
I don’t know if we need to be arming Ukraine such that it can strike inside the us
Can you imagine if we went to war with Canada and Russia supplied them weapons that they used to attack our oil fields with?
I don’t know if we need to be arming Ukraine such that it can strike inside the us
Can you imagine if we went to war with Canada and Russia supplied them weapons that they used to attack our oil fields with?
Russia is being directly supplied by its allies (NK, Iran, China) to attack Ukraine, such as directly attacking hospitals in Western Ukraine. It is just a complete double standard. There is no way to couch it.
I don’t know if we need to be arming Ukraine such that it can strike inside the us
Can you imagine if we went to war with Canada and Russia supplied them weapons that they used to attack our oil fields with?
Why does it matter where weapons come from ?
A missile is a missile wherever it comes from shrug
Why does it matter if Putin doesn't like it?
He's certainly not happy with USA already.
It'll help, I don't know about "address". It will be interesting to see how much F16s are going to help with Russia's strike campaign. I think they can hunt down some cruise missiles, but I doubt they will be able to do much else, especially at the start. The thing that needs to happen is allowing Ukraine to strike Russian airfields, it's outrageous that Biden refuses to let it happen.
The Russians are relying heavily at the moment on KAB glide bombs dropped by Sukhoi fighter-bombers. If those aircraft become vulnerable to interception by F-16s firing AIM-120 ASRAAMs with a range of up to 100 miles, it will make the Russians less comfortable in their aggression, to put it no stronger.
wonder if this guy supports Israel
Spoiler
I actually dont need to wonder
is that the azov brigade, or a different nazi one? i assume they have multiples
3rd Assault is an offshoot of Azov.
Give arms to Ukraine: gonna get nuked
Sanction Russia: gonna get nuked
Gives HIMARS: gonna get nuked
Give Leopards: gonna get nuked
Giver cluster munitions: gonna get nuked
Give F16s: gonna get nuked
And so on and so on.
IDK I'm calling his bluff this time, you can make your own read. This is the stage of the war now, Ukraine needs to be able to hit airbases inside of Russia.
The Russians are relying heavily at the moment on KAB glide bombs dropped by Sukhoi fighter-bombers. If those aircraft become vulnerable to interception by F-16s firing AIM-120 ASRAAMs with a range of up to 100 miles, it will make the Russians less comfortable in their aggression, to put it no stronger.
I think ASRAAMs are the British ones. The USA equivalent could do it, but it would be extremely dangerous to the F16s, I doubt they are willing to take this risk. It would also have limited impact since Russia could still launch the bombers which can survive this. It's possible Ukraine uses them this way, but I think it's really unlikely. Also no one knows what capabilities Ukraine will actually get for the F16s.
I’m sure they need to. They need isn’t the US problem tho. Avoiding nuclear attacks anywhere in the world is the US problem tho.
Eventually Putin might nuke a city in Ukraine. Make sure you remember the post you just made if it happens.
Do you understand risk?
Russia making Ukraine a failed state is indeed part of USA's problem.
I do understand risk, that is why I posted multiple examples of when Russia claimed USA was taking a risk of nuclear weapons being fired and it turned out to be nonsense. Do you understand risk? Do you understand that not giving Ukraine what it needs for a negotiation which will lead to a lasting peace creates its own risk; a risk with far a far higher likelihood and worse consequences than Russia using a nuke?
Haven’t thought of that one
Worse consequences than Russia using a nuke?
It's not clear to me what a nuke would even accomplish at this point and the consequences would be severe, potentially resulting in a direct military intervention and rushing Ukraine into NATO. The chances of Russia trying this are extremely slim.
They are guaranteed to continue using glide bombs though, and pushing back the bases the bombers can launch from helps this greatly. It also allows Ukraine to use more of its limited air defense batteries for infrastructure and cities. If Russia is allowed to make Ukraine a failed state the consequences will be awful, and would actually result in a higher chance of nukes being used in the future.
What’s more likely to induce Russia to use a nuke
Ukraine failing
Ukraine striking Russian targets inside of Russia
Ukraine failing.
Russia destroys enough of Ukraine's infrastructure (and more missiles continue to get through Ukraine's air defense) forcing even more Ukrainians to flee the country, Ukraine's economy fails completely (it's not exactly in great shape to begin with), and Ukraine becomes a failed state. This forces Ukraine to agree to a negotiated end to the conflict on favorable terms to Russia which gives Russia the ability to regroup and attack him. The fact that Russia attacking again will be such a high likelihood means that foreign investment to restore Ukraine doesn't materialize so Ukraine remains a failed state even after the settlement.
