[WPT Global] Official Thread

Hi guys. I've been playing on the WPT for 2 months. Today I can’t log into my account, this window is hanging. I receive a letter in the mail that I am coming. Has anyone encountered this problem?

2 players with similar name, same stakes, similar stats, similar buy-in amount, and the last their id is near mean they creating together.
Any person can see that 2 accounts are just 1 player.

Unfortunately this fix has been pushed to August. Nobody's more disappointed about this than me, believe me!

FairGame works pretty quickly to categorise players. Bad actors trying to put in volume would have to create a new account every couple of hours.

In the past we've sometimes had issues with players creating multiple accounts to abuse promotions or chip dump or whatever, because we've sometimes got the balance wrong by making it too easy to create new accounts. Usually though, the people doing this are either trying to harm us through fraud, or causing a nuisance without actually making profit from their activities.

I'm not saying that people won't try. But we are (a) aware that some will attempt this, and prepared to stop it; (b) not expecting it to be a significant problem that causes a lot of harm, because it would be impractical.

Appreciate your long post which I did read! Just want to comment on these two specific points of yours.

First, I think in the coming months it'll be obvious that we're reinvesting this money into the growth of the game. Internally, we have had literally no discussions about saving money - this is about reinvesting in a way that will bring new recreational players into the game, and give those players a great experience so that they want to come back and grow into 'improvers', rather than churning.

Secondly - no, we are not charging any cashout fees ourselves. However, I should be clear that some of our payment processors do themselves charge fees, typically when there are currency conversions involved. We don't have control over this part (but that's the same for all online businesses and is not specific to WPTG or even poker).

Can you please adress the burner accounts problems ?
There are a lot profesionals abusing this at the moment at 10/20/40. I open tables wait hours for games, play HU and when the tables suits them 4-5 players with under 5k hands and good poker skills take a sit . First of all it takes at least one month of play to adapt to a new platform from my experience at this kind of stake, from table selection sizing adaptation interaction with regulars and so on. It is easy for me to spot the regulars who already have played on WPTG before, and i can say it is a big problem for the long term regulars as it creates an unfair enviroment for us, also for the platform as they take the profit and run to the new account, besides being highly skilled players they can move tables at will. Combine this with them having rakeback from 1 of august and the rest of us have to start tables for the rake, it will be a no brainer to start abusing the system and my intuition says that honest regulars will tend to follow that pattern considering the money involved.
I urge you to consider a system that rewards long term players on the platform or maybe high volume players to solve this burner account problem. It is proven that you cannot stop them, as i said before they are highly skilled proffesionals that understand the game and workarounds just as well as i do probably even better. Or at least give the power to some regulars to red flag those accounts that we can all identify as skilled. Maybe let us rate players based on the skill we consider they have, use the community for the sake of the ecosystem.

These accounts are all over the place at 5/10/20 and 10/20/40. It's clear to anyone playing these games regularly. Please put more resources into this problem. When I suggested a temporary block on withdrawals from new accounts, I would not put a block a block on withdrawals from all players but just new regs.

Sorry but that's a straight up lie. I would love the idea of you being this honest, transparent WPT Guy who helps shine some light into the darkness but nah man, you're just trying to cover their ass. We are an affiliate and neither us, our master agent nor his contact person at WPT could give us any info and confirmed this "no RB to pros" change. We are still sitting in the dark and you come on here saying we have all been informed. I'll make sure if this is really implemented that none of our players will continue on your site because this is simply unacceptable and im sure other grinders will see it the same way.

Why am I not surprised

Well considering it is common knowledge between the abusers i will explain the reasoning behind them being at every stake. If you are a 25/50/100 regular for example you won't start playing your burner account at that stake, you will start at the lowest stake possible so you can maximise the profits before being segregated, as alex suggested segregation is for every stake and after you are tagged as a skilled player you go up in stake till the point you are a regular at. You can see that by looking at higher stakes where almost never those "new" players start at 10/20/40 they have at least 2-3k hands at a different stake, and i am sure you can confirm this alex by looking at the influx of new accounts that get from 100NL to 500NL in just a few days maybe hours, in the real poker world that takes few years of study and at least 10k hands to adapt to the new platform.

This is why chaos will probably come in the months after the rake cut if this problem is not adressed properly. Rake or promotions for new accounts may it be loosing or skilled players accounts will be a disaster in the coming months for the regulars not willing to adapt to the new system.

Here's a solution that would make burner accounts redundant over night; get rid of the "FairGame AI" system.

Then you could replace it with the "ghindos AI" system. (AI stands for "Actual Intelligence").
I would feel pretty confident in the security of games if ghindos was leading the team in control of that 😀

Amen.

Hi everyone, i ve been playing on wpt for 2 years now i just got email that requries Source of wealth from me. Did anyone get something similar? Im not a big winner and dont do high volume.
Last years i ve been playing on apps and got lucky on crypto so i really dont have anything to show of.

I think you should adress this, if you are going to cut rb at least you should cover this... this is the only site I know that dont cover this...

I gotta say, the thing where you misclick "Sports" on the sidebar and your cashier goes to $0 has to be one of the most idiotic designs ever.

In theory - the usefulness of burner accounts is very limited. First, Fairgame is quick to identify the skill level of a player, it typically happens in around 200 hands, so any advantage gained is very short-lived. Secondly - is it even an advantage? Using a burner account would allow you to sit at more tables - but those tables would be worse quality, because there would be three pros at the table instead of a maximum of two. By 'gaming the system', all you've done is ensure you sit at worse tables, on average, where you'll win less money. In fact, the only way I can see this being an advantage is if you're struggling to play the maximum four tables otherwise.

Furthermore, every new account you open puts you at more risk of getting caught, and all your funds being seized and redistributed. Frankly, I think you'd be really stupid to risk it.

Now, that's the theory. I have asked our security team to look at this issue specifically and investigate. Just because it's a dumb way to cheat doesn't mean that people won't try it.

So I looked into this and here's what happened.

1. Our team started to inform affiliates of what was going to happen (high level, similar to my post) in the first week of July. I say started, because I can't say for sure exactly who was informed and when (and I don't know which affiliate you are) but I was certainly under the impression that everybody had been told by the time I made my post. (And if not, clearly it had leaked anyway).

2. We started to share the exact and final details of the changes this week. (I've signed off a doc today that is going out to affiliates).

I'm sorry that you weren't informed before you saw this message, clearly we handled that part badly and I apologise for that. But in my situation - where I'm asked a specific question here on this forum - I'm always going to err on the side of answering that question transparently, rather than ignoring it or giving some bullshit half-answer.

We've all played on GG and Stars. Most people can't win before rewards. What is the point in grinding 50c an hour in EV in games like that. Fairgame might not be perfect, but it's an enormous step in the right direction, in creating games that are fun and beatable.

There are some regulatory changes coming in September that we're preparing for and I can confirm that we've sent these requests. If you're struggling to answer the questions then please let our team know and they will help you. We understand that a lot of poker players made their money playing poker or whatever.

I think you may have misinterpreted me - we don't charge any fees on cashouts at all, what we do is the same as every other site. There might be some circumstances where you get charged a fee by the payment provider or network. For example if you withdraw crypto you may be charged a gas fee or a fee to exchange cash to crypto. But that's entirely out of our control.

You can send this directly to [email]gameintegrity@wptglobal.com[/email] - thank you.

Lets just say it wasn't designed like that. The whole sports feature was rushed out for the football this Summer. Improvements are coming.

That is the main advantage, yes. It's a real struggle to find 4 tables once you've been tagged, so 4 tables with 3 pros is much better than 0-2 tables with 2 pros and the need to refresh the lobby constantly.

I'm very curious about this 200 hands thing - I played 280k hands before having my account tagged (I'm a big nit but didn't change style or anything). 2 other regs I know were tagged the same day, both with >20k hands played.

There are times, especially at 5/10/20, when 7 regs are playing with one semi rec and I can still see the table. Then I'll see 2 of those same guys at another table, go to sit but lose the race and another reg gets it so I get "cannot sit at this table".

Your description of the system sounds very good, but playing the games daily, it definitely doesn't feel like it's working as you describe it.

Man, now I understand
I freaked out the first time happening

Yeah I can confirm this happens a lot...

Hi, can I quickly ask why the rake for NLHE CNY 50/100/200 5% cap 300 while 25/50/100 4% cap 100? and I thought with 20bb+ win, 1bb would go into jp, but in this hand on 50/100/200 winner got 10bb, 0.5bb still went into jp?

Appreciate your explanation.

Just sent you a PM there Alex.

I played about 60k hands before being limited.

Yes it's an advantage.
Those tables are not worse than the 2, 3 or 4 tables that seem to run around the clock with just HSPs and one nit rec.
Also, if there are only 2 HSPs per table, I would guess on average at least 1 seat is already occupied by someone on a burner. Its not like HSPs need 6 recs per table to play.
I was struggling to play max tables yes, multiple people who actually play in these games have made that abundantly clear in this thread, and the fact you refuse to accept it is becoming a bit insulting.

WPT Global has created great incentives to play on a burner, even more so now with the RB changes. With risk comes reward.

Fairgame is definitely a good step in theory, but like its been mentioned in this thread numerous times, it simply doesnt work as stated.
As for game integrity/security and ghindos, they have already demonstrated that they are more capable of detecting bad actors than the so called "AI" and also the staff at WPTG who have access to more than enough information, so I stand by my statement on ghindos AI™.

https://i.gyazo.com/4ab0401bdbfa1f0bb460...
You can see the stage where I got limited. (97k hands total)
One day I opened and closed over 142 tables in a 6 hour session.

I have become disillusioned with WPTG.

Why is it so hard to accept or consider the feedback of some of the most the committed customers who actually play in these games. This is one of the greatest source of feedback a company could have and it seems like it's being squandered.

I was rewarded $100 for reporting a bug, but if you go back and read what I said, you will see that I did not report the bug I was rewarded for. I still don't understand what I was rewarded for, but I'm happy to take the $100 for the tables I (somehow) started and all the other hours of my life I have spent sitting 1/8 on tables that exist on another plane and for all the time and consideration I have spent giving feedback that is seemingly unbeleived.

Alex at some point you have to admit that the fairgame system fails, we had 2 or 3 months where segregation failed to work for new accounts, allowing regulars with 40k-50k hands to not be segregated and we had to play 6-7 regulars vs 1-2 recreationals, on all tables and there also are a lot of workarounds. Would it be so hard to implement a rating system from the players that actually play the games just to give a rank to every player on the platform, we can all identify a regular or a recreational in 10 played hands, why do we have to wait those 200 (that usually go 500 to 1k hands al least from my experience, because the system and i can't stress this enough FAILS a lot). An easy example of a workaround, a new player chip dumps to a friend playing like a recreational for 500 hands HU, same account with huge stats comes and plays in the games, he has the image of a new fish player and crushes the games being unsegregated (i do not need a pretended solution for this kind of workaround, because there are a lot like this that i can't even imagine, the FACT is that cheating is a big factor on the platform in many forms, High stakes being the biggest problem). Please be reasonable and try to listen to the players, because it is in our best interest to have a fairgame system that works, and managerial decisions that are consistent and long term. I've been through the downfall of many platforms, and allowing cheaters and abusers to have their way, and ignoring regs usually means start of the downfall. To be fair, we had a good run here and somehow expected it to end at some point.

A good example of a workaround, this player has 2k hands played he plays 74 44 stats. He plays GTO poker probably with an RTA behind, he's moving from table to table stealing some money from the regulars, not so much because he just enters with 100 bb. But he creates a huge fish image account fairgame either does not detect him as a crusher regular or he chip dumps somewhere. At some point this same player with those whale stats will start crushing at the 8 max tables seen at least 20 players like him lately predominantly at higher stakes.

name ydh9857
ID 6499822

Yeah, this is a problem that I spotted a couple of months ago. I noticed a LOT of guys with stats like this, or stats 50/2 (maybe just limp/fold HU with some other account).
1. They made fake stats. This can fool some REGs and RECs at least from the beginning until they realise it´s fake. So he gains an advantage
2. He makes an impression for AI, he is a fish and who knows how long it takes AI to realize, he is an HSP
3. He has access to all the games running

Using burners give players huge advantage. First they increase their hands played per hours due to the fact all tables are unfiltered for them and they get to table select. Second since they're new accounts, their stats fluctuate so much we have no info on them if they're reg/fish so there is a lot more guessing involved. Lastly as Alex mentioned since the labeled pros will get 0 RB, these burners can just play few hundred hands get max RB, quit, rinse repeat and abuse the system of unfiltered games, higher hands played/HR + max RB. Unless Alex has a solution for this, i dont condemn how this business practice for lowering RB for the honest Pros grinding on one account, while the bad actors are printing so much more abusing this.

If anything Alex should be targeting those burners and abusers by giving grinders incentives to stay on 1 account