The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
I have to wonder, to what extent is Khelif really "male?" If Khelif does actually have Swyer syndrome, then she has XY chromosomes, but she would've never underwent male puberty. They give people with Swyer syndrome estrogen to induce female puberty. In that case, if she did undergo anything approaching male puberty, it would've been due to testosterone introduced after the induced female puberty
I'd say she's at least never been punched in the face by a roided up woman before
I have to wonder, to what extent is Khelif really "male?" If Khelif does actually have Swyer syndrome, then she has XY chromosomes, but she would've never underwent male puberty. They give people with Swyer syndrome estrogen to induce female puberty. In that case, if she did undergo anything approaching male puberty, it would've been due to testosterone introduced after the induced female puberty
I'd say she's at least never been punched in
it's just wild speculation as to what khelif's specific condition is
but she did fail a gender test that was never addressed and welll... would you see this picture here and even for a minute remotely suspect that's a woman (even if you didn't know she was 5'10")?
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8NBkOBIAqO/
if she was cleared to play with no inherent advantage then IOC should have addressed the elephant in the room and gotten in front of it beforehand
it just sucks for her and is absolutely awful all around, IOC should have either not let her compete or showed the world why she was going to compete so we don't get situations where her competition drops out in less than a minute, refuses to shake hands and breaks down in tears over how unfair they felt it was
I have to wonder, to what extent is Khelif really "male?" If Khelif does actually have Swyer syndrome, then she has XY chromosomes, but she would've never underwent male puberty. They give people with Swyer syndrome estrogen to induce female puberty. In that case, if she did undergo anything approaching male puberty, it would've been due to testosterone introduced after the induced female puberty
I'd say she's at least never been punched in
I'd guess she has 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency or similar. In other words, they are genetically male but during primary sexual development the absence of 5α-Reductase 2 means T does not get converted to DHT (the hormone responsible for primary sexual development) and therefore develop primary female sexual organs, but have testes instead of ovaries.
However, when puberty kicks in, the testes release T and the body does respond by developing male secondary sexual characteristics such as broad shoulders, bigger muscles. These characteristics in particular enable males to punch much harder than females, on average 2.5 times as hard.
Hence why males and females should not compete in contact sports.
razor consulting GPT is an improvement
how in any shape or form is this a productive comment that drives the conversation?
it feels like he made a good point (razor is one of the more articulate posters here and very good at making points in clear and concise manners unlike me who sucks balls at posting)
but you don't like anything to do with razor because you're all worked up and thus just resort to ad hominem
Logan Paul deletes his post and follows up with this:
Oopsies! Honest mistake, amirite? Just a little friendly "spreading misinformation along with the entirety of this app".
Stay classy, Logan.
how in any shape or form is this a productive comment that drives the conversation?
it feels like he made a good point (razor is one of the more articulate posters here and very good at making points in clear and concise manners unlike me who sucks balls at posting)
but you don't like anything to do with razor because you're all worked up and thus just resort to ad hominem
“This is an improvement” is an ad hominem?
But if we really want to get into it, asking GPT to spit out some medical terms in a manner that supports calling Imane a man isn’t really pushing the discussion forward and is exactly the kind of rhetoric that I thought you were referencing with your heartfelt empathy for imane
Wrong again. That article only discusses AIS, which is only one of several DSDs where the individual may identify as a woman, but has an XY chromosomes.
No one really knows what the actual numbers of DSDs are, but it's a lot lower than just the number for AIS.
Wrong again. That article only discusses AIS, which is only one of several DSDs where the individual may identify as a woman, but has an XY chromosomes.
No one really knows what the actual numbers of DSDs are, but it's a lot lower than just the number for AIS.
What was I wrong about the first time to be wrong “again”?
And what am I “wrong” about here? I didn’t claim anything, I posted a tweet
Edit: if AIS is a DSD and there are many DSD of which AIS is but one then DSDs>AIS, ducy? In this specific example there were 8 DSDs identified and 7 were AIS
So trans activists are now okay with gender being tested for based on biology?
When (formerly) Bruce Jenner competed in the Olympics in the men’s category, was Jenner competing in the appropriate category or not?
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/ea...
Here is one from the same time period contradicting the study that you posted. They also don't start from a biased hypothesis. I probably don't need to tell you about issues with confirmation bias in scientific studies.
I might be misunderstanding something but that study looks fairly useless for drawing useful conclusions for this discussion. Some of the medical test stuff looks interesting but the hand strength/lower body power/VO2 max stuff has very little value in a cross-sectional study with this sort of sample size.
Obviously it would be great to have longitudinal studies specifically dedicated to analysing athletic performance but the fact of the matter is that going through male puberty obviously does provide an advantage. How much that advantage is reduced by sustained hormone therapy and how it varies based on the length of time undergoing therapy is not entirely clear but at the elite level the burden of proof has to be on showing that there is no advantage, which I doubt even you would claim has been shown.
And also just to be clear, I am very much talking specifically about elite level competition when saying that the science and evidence of their being no advantage are very important. As soon as we drop below elite level I am of the opinion that inclusion rapidly becomes a much more important consideration.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/ea...
They also don't start from a biased hypothesis. I probably don't need to tell you about issues with confirmation bias in scientific studies.
What was I wrong about the first time to be wrong “again”?
And what am I “wrong” about here? I didn’t claim anything, I posted a tweet
Edit: if AIS is a DSD and there are many DSD of which AIS is but one then DSDs>AIS, ducy? In this specific example there were 8 DSDs identified and 7 were AIS
It's just Elrazor's rhetorical style when he thinks his posts haven't been accorded the mountain of respect he feels he deserves, which is why he's forever talking about his masters but rarely says it was in a non academic subject (sports).
Anyway, enough of him.
The case of Santhi Soundarajan cited in the study you posted is interesting. After being stripped of her silver medal in the 2006 Asian Games 800m for AIS, she became severely depressed and attempted suicide.
I agree with
I’m not sure why this boxer(Khalif)is being discussed in the trans gender thread . She was born female and her passport lists her as a female .
I might be misunderstanding something but that study looks fairly useless for drawing useful conclusions for this discussion. Some of the medical test stuff looks interesting but the hand strength/lower body power/VO2 max stuff has very little value in a cross-sectional study with this sort of sample size.
Obviously it would be great to have longitudinal studies specifically dedicated to analysing athletic performance but the fact of the mat
The second any female trans athlete has even a sliver of success a select group loses their collective mind and screech angrily across the universe for endless amounts of time until the athlete is shut down. This most recent event should pretty much prove to you that its not about science, or fair competition, or facts, its about hate and oppression.
We have no way to provide a burden of proof if no data is allowed to be gathered.
I’m not sure why this boxer(Khalif)is being discussed in the trans gender thread . She was born female and her passport lists her as a female .
yeah i'm with you on that one, feel like this should be a separate thread
i get how it's somewhat related though and probably easier logistically to keep it all here since it's fundamentally discussing about advantages in sports
The second any female trans athlete has even a sliver of success a select group loses their collective mind and screech angrily across the universe for endless amounts of time until the athlete is shut down. This most recent event should pretty much prove to you that its not about science, or fair competition, or facts, its about hate and oppression.
I don't disagree with this at all, there is definitely a lot of reactionary bullshit around this subject. This event specifically has a lot of transphobes telling on themselves (*cough*JKR*cough*) and showing that they really don't have a clue what they are talking about.
We have no way to provide a burden of proof if no data is allowed to be gathered.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this though. The research doesn't need to involve elite level athletes to be significant, so I'm not sure what you're referring to about data not being allowed to be gathered.
I’m not sure why this boxer(Khalif)is being discussed in the trans gender thread . She was born female and her passport lists her as a female .
Some people are just REALLY eager to deliver their normal bits about trans people and unfortunately a lot of big anti-trans celebrities came out swinging on this one. I'm actually glad you didn't jump on the bandwagon!
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this though. The research doesn't need to involve elite level athletes to be significant, so I'm not sure what you're referring to about data not being allowed to be gathered.
I recently linked a study that showed that "advantage" retention was greater in elite female trans athletes. There needs to be more studies to determine if a baseline can be established.
As you say, its about establishing a line and you can't do that without copious amounts of data. The author of above study said "Maybe 2 years is more appropriate than 1". I don't want a "maybe"
