The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
Funny that one of major argument against the whole gender topic from the right is usually :
Born as female or male, you don't get to chose later what you want.
But here we have a boxer born as female and where all their talking points have gone?
Scratching head.
Keep going with the bad faith arguments.
Argument from the right is your sex is immutable, but in the case of this boxer, it's male, because it's the actual 1 in 50k cases in which looking at genitalia gives you the wrong sex.
It's the actual "sex assigned at birth can be wrong" idea the left weaponized and abused with gender theory, which instead was only true in case of ultrarare disorders, like the one affecting this boxer.
Btw there is another boxer with the same conditions playing in this tournament (what are the odds of that, if the condition didn't give a significant athletic advantage against women without it?) from Taiwan, and in the recent past the IOC banned athletes with similar conditions from participation in women sports (semenya and others).
If you have XY chromosomes and testes you are a biological man (or so for us on the right, a man forever no matter what you do, identify with, and so on). That in a miniscule number of cases that might not be detected immediately from outside at birth is irrelevant to that.
If you have XY chromosomes and testes you are a biological man (or so for us on the right, a man forever no matter what you do, identify with, and so on). That in a miniscule number of cases that might not be detected immediately from outside at birth is irrelevant to that.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...
So some men can get pregnant and give birth then?
It appears that the opponents' main argument is that the IBA disqualified the two boxers, but there's not much information about why that happened, and the IOC stripped the IBC of their status as the governing body last year, apparently for unrelated reasons.
No. Her opponents main argument is that Khelif is male.
Funny that one of major argument against the whole gender topic from the right is usually :
Born as female or male, you don't get to chose later what you want.
But here we have a boxer born as female and where all their talking points have gone?
Scratching head.
No. The argument is she was born male, but incorrectly documented as female due to the presence of a DSD.
Lol what amaturs - IOC effectively confirming this is a DSD athlete.
It appears that the opponents' main argument is that the IBA disqualified the two boxers, but there's not much information about why that happened, and the IOC stripped the IBC of their status as the governing body last year, apparently for unrelated reasons.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/artic...
That doesn't mean the IOC couldn't be wrong, nor that there couldn't be a genuine competitive issue here. But in the end, it's g
As I linked before, the Russian guy at the top of the org said in an interview (and now apparently going off on social media) that they had tested and come back with XY chromosomes. They cannot release someone else's medical records. You know who could? The boxer herself. She hasn't and probably won't for obvious reasons
If you don't understand what xy chromosomes means or intersex, don't worry I got you covered there as well. In my previous post I linked you to an actual expert explaining these things in detail. There's pictures and everything
You're welcome
Funny that one of major argument against the whole gender topic from the right is usually :
Born as female or male, you don't get to chose later what you want.
But here we have a boxer born as female and where all their talking points have gone?
Scratching head.
stop embarrassing yourself
Sadly, this needs to be posted here. If you've run away from the question "what is a woman" or failed as badly as uke master. Watch please. If you're derpily bumbling about intersex, you can also watch. If you've made a total fool of yourself and bought in to gender ideology, you need to watch this
Once upon a time people weren't afraid to talk about science so it wouldn't be as easy indoctrinate rubes with insane stuff like gender ideology.
if the athletes meet the current requirements, that's where the story should end, and that's what the IOC should announce.
yeah this has been my position, the critique from me is that IOC clearly hasn't done enough to demonstrate to the other competitors why these two women are allowed to compete
they basically swept up their former bans under the rug, gave zero explanation, and said they were good to go - which is why there's so much controversy over the issue and so many women are openly complaining
this is not the situation, the claim is that she is intersex with xy and has gonads and a vagina
there is a historic precedent of intersex athletes in the olympics and it's always been met with controversy - most recently there was a brazilian women who was required to have surgery to remove the gonads in order to meet eligbility requirements
Sadly, this needs to be posted here. If you've run away from the question "what is a woman" or failed as badly as uke master. Watch please.
Just lol at trying to think this issue connects to your silly Matt Walsh -wannabe "what is a woman" bit from earlier. That, uh, "debate", such as it is, is about gender identity and the language around including trans woman as women. Not biological sex. But this issue at the Olympics is one about a weird biological case, presumably someone with a DND although we're not 100% sure.
For instance, I'm 100% happy to say that a trans woman is a woman while also thinking this particular woman likely should be banned from the Olympics (depending a bit on the accuracy of our guesses as to her biology). The two statements aren't even a little bit in tension.
As I linked before, the Russian guy at the top of the org said in an interview (and now apparently going off on social media) that they had tested and come back with XY chromosomes. They cannot release someone else's medical records. You know who could? The boxer herself. She hasn't and probably won't for obvious reasons
If you don't understand what xy chromosomes means or intersex, don't worry I got you covered there as well. In my previous
We required vaccination status to participate in sports, we can require public DNA testing redacted but showing if the individual is XX or XY
Just lol at trying to think this issue connects to your silly Matt Walsh -wannabe "what is a woman" bit from earlier. That, uh, "debate", such as it is, is about gender identity and the language around including trans woman as women. Not biological sex. But this issue at the Olympics is one about a weird biological case, presumably someone with a DND although we're not 100% sure.
For instance, I'm 100% happy to say that a trans woman is a
I can believe the statements aren't in tension FOR YOU, but they are for many trans activists.
Fwiw the Italian press is reporting that Carini will be rewarded financially "as if it had won a medal" by the Italian government (details yet to come)
nice.. good to see right wing idiots grifting outside the USA. makes me somewhat less embarrassed by my own country. gotta give out those i'm not good enough participation trophies.
Funny that one of major argument against the whole gender topic from the right is usually :
Born as female or male, you don't get to chose later what you want.
But here we have a boxer born as female and where all their talking points have gone?
Scratching head.
With XY chromosomes, as apparently established by the IBA, you're not female. (And one look at the individual in question tends to confirm this.) If, as is claimed, the individual has a DSD, which may have caused misregistration at birth, then further medical inquiry can certainly settle the matter, because each DSD is particular to either men or women. No DSD is common to both sexes.
Fwiw the Italian press is reporting that Carini will be rewarded financially "as if it had won a medal" by the Italian government (details yet to come)
It's not the Italian government, it's the IBA. Bit fighty of them, but under their rules the other boxer shouldn't have been competing. They're having a go at the IOC, whose views in this area are a bit odd and questionable, reflecting a kind of privileged ideological orthodoxy at odds with reality.
ah, the iba huh?
Khelif was banned from fighting in competitions run by the International Boxing Association (IBA) in 2023 for reasons that have still not been made entirely clear. At the time the decision was made, IBA president Umar Kremlev, who has recently been busy recording videos about how the Olympics are promoting "outright sodomy and the destruction of traditional values," told a Russian news agency that Khelif was banned because she had XY chromosomes, which can be found in cis women with certain genetic conditions. The IBA released a statement yesterday saying only that the test and result that led to Khelif's ban was confidential. The IOC, which no longer recognizes the IBA as a governing body due to its mismanagement and allegations of corruption that have been made during Kremlev's tenure, released its own statement on Thursday, reiterating Khelif's right to compete at the Olympics and her adherence to the rules.
what's the mental illness associated with transphobia? because these people are not well...
It's not the Italian government, it's the IBA. Bit fighty of them, but under their rules the other boxer shouldn't have been competing. They're having a go at the IOC, whose views in this area are a bit odd and questionable, reflecting a kind of privileged ideological orthodoxy at odds with reality.
No it's the Italian government.
We pay 200k Eur for a gold (can't remember what we pay for silver/bronze)
nice.. good to see right wing idiots grifting outside the USA. makes me somewhat less embarrassed by my own country. gotta give out those i'm not good enough participation trophies.
There is no grift: the sovereign will of the Italian people elected a rightwing government which does enact rightwing values as morally and legally mandated by the sacred electoral result.
That is, if you don't hate democracy
There is no grift: the sovereign will of the Italian people elected a rightwing government which does enact rightwing values as morally and legally mandated by the sacred electoral result.
That is, if you don't hate democracy
And here I was thinking right wingers were against participation trophies. Carini was barely above 0% to medal if Khelif wasn't in the tournament so the government giving her a prize as if she won one is nothing but a political stunt. They're perfectly free to do that but don't try to claim it's anything else.
Just lol at trying to think this issue connects to your silly Matt Walsh -wannabe "what is a woman" bit from earlier. That, uh, "debate", such as it is, is about gender identity and the language around including trans woman as women. Not biological sex. But this issue at the Olympics is one about a weird biological case, presumably someone with a DND although we're not 100% sure.
For instance, I'm 100% happy to say that a trans woman is a
One of the biggest stories in the world right now is "what is a woman". This matt walsh insert is your attempt to re-brand an obvious question that you and gender ideology quacks fail to answer.
Why is it so tough to see someone with small gametes, xy chromosomes and determine they aren't actually a woman? Because of gender ideology clowns like yourself can't define what a woman is. No boundaries or definitions. Just word soup and circular logic that leads to a mess like this
Here's your lol "definition". Let's reference your "definition" of a woman and see if we can decide if someone with xy chromosomes and small gametes should participate in women's boxing
Our species is sexually dimorphic, and we associate a range of social, cultural, behavioural and psychological characteristics along with that sexual dimorphism that we loosely call "gender". BUT THEN a minority of humans seem to rather genuinely identify with a gender that doesn't match their sex and I'm perfectly happy extending the labelling of such people to be men/women as well, because why the **** not?
Umm... that didn't help. Probably because it wasn't a definition just a lol word soup. Again, we have a sex binary, we have sexuality, and we have personality. What does gender ideology even offer or add? What does your "definition" change or add to those 3 things? I've asked plenty and nobody answered. Here's the results from a single word search
How do you understand personality traits, sex differences in personality traits, and then become so incredibly lost in gender ideology that you can't instantly recognize it is useless made up nonsense?
Yes we have sex, personality, and sexuality. What exactly do we need "gender" (as used in gender ideology) for? Oh to ram insanity in to our lives? Well it worked I guess. But obviously "gender" is already covered by those three categories tha
5. We have sex, personality, and sexuality. Is there anything that "gender" covers that isn't in those 3 categories?
All you're doing is noticing Males and females have stereotypical traits. This is known as masculinity and femininity. These are also called personality traits. Many women enjoy hunting, combat sports, etc etc. This has absolutely nothing to do with their "gender". It's their personality. If a heterosexual girl has these interests, she's a woman or called a tomboy. If she says she's trans then all of the sudden these same personality traits
One of the biggest stories in the world right now is "what is a woman". This matt walsh insert is your attempt to re-brand an obvious question that you and gender ideology quacks fail to answer.
Why is it so tough to see someone with small gametes, xy chromosomes and determine they aren't actually a woman? Because of gender ideology clowns like yourself can't define what a woman is. No boundaries or definitions. Just word soup and circular
Lol, it is rather amusing seeing you try to stuff the current topic (about someone's biological sex status) with your old Matt Walsh style "what is a woman" nonsense (about the language to do with gender identity). While we don't know for the sure the details of the Khelif case, the most likely scenario is that she is someone who is biologically male with male chromosomes, but with a DND. That is, this debate is purely a question about what her biology actually is, not how she identifies. Again we don't know much about her personal life, but when it comes to gender it appears this person was identified as female at birth, raised female, identifies as female today - stronger even than trans people who transitioned, this person has seemingly always identified as female. Both can be true. It can make the most sense to refer to her as a woman AND to say that because of her biology she shouldn't be competing. Stop conflating the different thing.
Here's your lol "definition". Let's reference your "definition" of a woman and see if we can decide if someone with xy chromosomes and small gametes should participate in women's boxing
This isn't hard at all, unless one wants to put their head in the sand and pretend they can't understand the concept of "gender identity". Assuming we have our facts right, I would say she shouldn't compete in the olympics because of her biological status, which is separate and doesn't detract from her being a woman.
Easy.
And here I was thinking right wingers were against participation trophies. Carini was barely above 0% to medal if Khelif wasn't in the tournament so the government giving her a prize as if she won one is nothing but a political stunt. They're perfectly free to do that but don't try to claim it's anything else.
It is a political choice, dunno what you mean with "stunt" though.
It's a political symbolic gesture to reward what we think properly represents our values.
Well, anyway. If the two Olympic boxers at issue are DSD and not 'trans', the whole subject is a bit off-topic. But the IOC seems to have made a nonsense by going against the regulatory body for the sport, seemingly for ideological reasons, and the IOC boss has apparently made a statement in which it's clear that he doesn't realise there's a difference between 'trans' people and DSD people. Mite awkward. Some journalistic sources claim that the IBA sex test, which the two boxers failed, was merely for testosterone levels, but as far as I know that's not correct. They're oddly coy about what the test was, but a DNA mouth-swab would do.
It is a political choice, dunno what you mean with "stunt" though.
It's a political symbolic gesture to reward what we think properly represents our values.
Carini herself has done nothing more than happen to have been drawn against the woman who maybe shouldn't be allowed in the competition - she certainly showed very little indication that she was capable of winning a medal had she had a different draw. It's a reward for happening to be involved in circumstances she had no control over - but having written that I guess that does sound about right for how rewards work within right-wing values.
Spoiler
The last sentence is somewhat tongue in cheek, the rest is serious.
But the IOC seems to have made a nonsense by going against the regulatory body for the sport
Nope. The IBA was removed as the regulatory body for the IOC, last year, as has been mentioned in this thread before.
Upon what are you basing that conclusion?
and the IOC boss has apparently made a statement in which it's clear that he doesn't realise there's a difference between 'trans' people and DSD people.
I've been trying to find that but have thus far been unsuccessful - do you have a link?
