The costs of trans visibility

The costs of trans visibility

Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....

For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and

. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.

What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.

We need to do better.

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30 June 2023 at 04:48 PM
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6813 Replies

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Do you even vaguely apply the "respect is mandatory" rule when people in this forum talk about rightwing voters?

Because the trashing of most rightwing positions is incessant and only moderated when it becomes a full paragraph of direct, explicit insults.

The very typical one word/line insult toward maga in particular, more in general anyone who dares to express rightwing values/preferences , never begets a mod action (by you or others).

Given the freedom leftists have to basically trash all worldviews that differ from theirs, I thought the same applied to me.

Was I wrong?

And again in the specific case pronouns are UNKNOWN, only the trans status is known (if media reports can be proof of that).

As for trolling, there are people who basically only troll, all the time, one in particular with a nickname of "troll", who afaik haven't been sanctioned for that, so I thought trolling was fully allowed here (even if I don't troll)


Hiw quickly it shifts from this:

by Luciom P

If you can compete with women *you are a woman*, there is no misgendering, and how she feels is utterly irrelevant.

You don't deny the right to self identification but there is no right to oblige me to identify you in the way you do. None at all. I don't buy into any element of gender theory nonsense, I decide to fully refuse to change pronouns depending on how somebody think he is.


To, 'but, but, how will I know what pronouns to use without a bunch of research, that's not fair!'

No one here's going to give a **** if you misgender someone by accident. The issue came when you made it clear in the post above that you'd continue deliberately migendering people, so don't pretend now that the big bad mods are thteatening to persecute you for making an error.

by Luciom P

I am back from the ban but i am not sure i will be around much at this point tbh.


8 days and 200+ posts later, here we are. Shocking.


by Luciom P

Do you even vaguely apply the "respect is mandatory" rule when people in this forum talk about rightwing voters?

I don't know whether to post here or the mod thread, but either way I truly don't care to convince you. As Bobo points out, you're not posting in good faith, so I'm not debating rules with you. If you don't like what I'm saying, you can either get banned, go elsewhere, or get the site owner to demod me.


by ganstaman P

I don't know whether to post here or the mod thread, but either way I truly don't care to convince you. As Bobo points out, you're not posting in good faith, so I'm not debating rules with you. If you don't like what I'm saying, you can either get banned, go elsewhere, or get the site owner to demod me.

What do you mean with good faith? I post to make the point, as often than necessary, that gender theory is wrong , that complying with it is wrong, that it is a moral imperative to fight it as a threat to society: that's my good faith, my political opinion.

So the idea is we arent even allowed to debate gender theory tenets???? That the rules mandate we AGREE with an exceptionally controversial radical leftist theory of how gender and sex are and interact which one another? Of what words mean?

Even if many states in the USA and countries legislate to the contrary?

I got told recently in the mod thread that anything that is actual policy, or a policy proposal, of elected politicians in western countries is fair game.

Denying gender theory and all it's corollaries (including the idea that in order to respect someone you have to use the pro puns that person chose at the time being for himself) qualifies with that.

Pls confirm you are threatening to ban me if I don't adhere with gender theory "rules"


by Luciom P

I got told recently in the mod thread that anything that is actual policy, or a policy proposal, of elected politicians in western countries is fair game.

When I'm almost positive I remember you being told was not that such topics are just flat out fair game, but instead that what you say and how you say it is what determines whether it's within the rules or not. That's the same here. It's one thing to respectfully and civilly debate gender theory and it's another to purposefully misgender people as a way to protest the concept of gender in the midst of a discussion about what trans people go through. If you don't get the nuance, then asking progressively more specific questions to determine exactly what you can say is not going to get you there.


by Luciom P

What do you mean with good faith?


I'll rake a wild guess he's referring to this:

by Bobo Fett P

How quickly it shifts from this:

by Luciom P

If you can compete with women *you are a woman*, there is no misgendering, and how she feels is utterly irrelevant.

You don't deny the right to self identification but there is no right to oblige me to identify you in the way you do. None at all. I don't buy into any element of gender theory nonsense, I decide to fully refuse to change pronouns depending on how somebody think he is.


To, 'but, but, how will I kn


When you say you're going to intentionally misgender people and then when you're told you'll be banned for it, you move on to protest banning for unintentionally misgendering people. That sounds like a bad faith argument to me.


by Luciom P

What do you mean with good faith? I post to make the point, as often than necessary, that gender theory is wrong , that complying with it is wrong, that it is a moral imperative to fight it as a threat to society: that's my good faith, my political opinion.

So the idea is we arent even allowed to debate gender theory tenets???? That the rules mandate we AGREE with an exceptionally controversial radical leftist theory of how gender and sex ar

Didn't you report a poster for calling you Lucias a couple of times?


by coordi P

Didn't you report a poster for calling you Lucias a couple of times?

Warping someone name is in fact considered very disrespectful by most human beings, unlike the recently made up gender theory thing


by Luciom P

Warping someone name is in fact considered very disrespectful by most human beings, unlike the recently made up gender theory thing

I just see you as a woman and don't respect your claim that you are a man. Lucio doesn't make sense as a womans name, Lucias does. \

Kinda weird tbh


by coordi P

I just see you as a woman and don't respect your claim that you are a man. Lucio doesn't make sense as a womans name, Lucias does. \

Kinda weird tbh

I don’t think this strategy is ethical, fwiw

That’s why I deleted similar posts in the moderation thread


by Crossnerd P

I don’t think this strategy is ethical, fwiw

That’s why I deleted similar posts in the moderation thread

Yeah I knew I was treading thin going for it here.

The point is to be as unethical and bad faith as possible. Lift the mirror so to say


You’re just breaking the same (moral and forum) rule you agree he shouldn’t be breaking. It’s not the example you think imo… and I say that as someone who shares your perspective generally. Please don’t do that…


by Luciom P

Warping someone name is in fact considered very disrespectful by most human beings, unlike the recently made up gender theory thing


Ah, so you're the arbiter of what is or is not disrespectful to not only you, but everyone else? That may fly in Luciomville, but I don't think it will here.


by lozen P

They is non-binary born a woman and does not identify as a man .

”they ARE non-binary”.

You’ve been told this repeatedly. Why are you still struggling with basic conjugations?


As someone who feels strongly that the trans identity is harmful to both the individuals who identify with it as well as society at large, taking the anti position with regard to pronouns I see as unproductive. It becomes a distraction from the proper points of focus — the erroneous idea of “true gender”, the ineffectiveness of gender affirmation on despair + suicidal ideation, and the social elevation of the trans identity leading to a false hope for marginalized youth.

I find using “they” as the default for any trans person serves the purpose of preventing derailment, while at the same time not fully conceding to the ideology.


by uke_master P

”they ARE non-binary”.

You’ve been told this repeatedly. Why are you still struggling with basic conjugations?


Is this true? In this case is they not singular?


by Didace P

Is this true? In this case is they not singular?

The singular they (that everyone uses when the gender isn’t specified in a story, nothing to do with trans people) is conjugated the same way as the plural they. For example, my friend went to the doctor today, and said they were great!


by Luciom P

The fact that i should go and check what pronouns that person currently decided to use (subject to change at any time) according to you is simply HORRIFIC, i should never have to ask other people how i can address them, it's insane, utterly immoral, to ask me to. I will use the pronouns that are proper for their biology, as the vast majority of human beings for most of human history did.

If i "lose" with people i deeply despise, with whom i

You don’t have to check whether a woman is a Miss or a Mrs. You can use Ms. if you don’t know.

Similarly with your gripe you can use they.

Hope this isn’t too HORRIFIC for you.


by uke_master P

”they ARE non-binary”.

You’ve been told this repeatedly. Why are you still struggling with basic conjugations?

And here I’m thinking get it all right and Uke will be proud

If we want to get it right they / them should be it

I guess another violation by the trans police and that’s why folks are sick of the folks like you


by lozen P

And here I’m thinking get it all right and Uke will be proud

If we want to get it right they / them should be it

I guess another violation by the trans police and that’s why folks are sick of the folks like you

You can never appease the marxists, you can only give up ground for them to try to abuse you further later on.


by lozen P

They is non-binary born a woman and does not identify as a man . Hit a nice penalty shot unlike her teammates

So it's really a nothing burger. A woman born a woman competing in women's sports. Got it.


Anyways, the 2 boxers who have failed past gender tests are now competing for gold medals. Are we still pretending nothing is wrong with any of this?


by Betraisefold22 P

Anyways, the 2 boxers who have failed past gender tests are now competing for gold medals. Are we still pretending nothing is wrong with any of this?

According to the marxist association of gender sport studies there is no proof that their XY chromosomes give them any advantage so it's a crime (hate speech) for you to suggest otherwise.


lol, are they really tripling down on the boxing thing even after discovering the boxer wasn't remotely transgender? Take the L, chumps, you've earned it.


by Luciom P

According to the marxist association of gender sport studies there is no proof that their XY chromosomes give them any advantage so it's a crime (hate speech) for you to suggest otherwise.

Yeah very scared of being accused of a hate crime. Not....

by Trolly McTrollson P

lol, are they really tripling down on the boxing thing even after discovering the boxer wasn't remotely transgender? Take the L, chumps, you've earned it.

Actually it seems to be that women who do pass these gender tests are taking the Ls.


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