The costs of trans visibility

The costs of trans visibility

Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....

For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and

. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.

What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.

We need to do better.

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30 June 2023 at 04:48 PM
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6817 Replies

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I use they to refer to a singular gendered person all the time and I've never once had to refer to a non-binary person as a they. Its not even a respect thing, its just common vernacular

This is pretty silly. "It" clearly has an insulting context when referring to a human. We used to use it as an insult in grade school


by originalgangster P

There is a large community of people far more educated on the topic than you and I, eminent psychiatrists, who disagree with you. IÂ’m saddened that anyone on this forum would close themselves off to points of views that have solid foundations for how they were formed. I wouldnÂ’t thought this would be a place of open and honest discussion. Sounds like you just want an echo chamber for views you agree with.

I feel like I recognize this writing style


by originalgangster P

There is a large community of people far more educated on the topic than you and I, eminent psychiatrists, who disagree with you.

I am a psychiatrist who works with many trans patients, and I am very educated on this topic. There is no large community of psychiatrists or psychologists who think that being trans is a mental illness. You may find my position sad, but it isn't up for debate.


by uke_master P

I'm glad you discovered this for yourself! I'm not sure why you think anyone but you is confused about this, but I guess it's just one more opportunity for you to play that tired game where you get to make up pretend reasons to pat yourself on your back.

Thank you for your post that demonstrates 0% reason, 100% personal insults and numerous grammatical errors.


by ganstaman P

There is no large community of psychiatrists or psychologists who think that being trans is a mental illness. You may find my position sad, but it isn't up for debate.

I agree trans is not a mental illness, and it's sad it needs stating. Gender Dysphoria might be, but not trans per se.

However, would you agree that there are mentally ill people who think they are trans?


by Elrazor P

Thank you for your post that demonstrates 0% reason, 100% personal insults and numerous grammatical errors.

it's literally the only thing he does

if his views weren't in line with moderation that behavior would have gotten him banned long ago - but alas he's a friendly ally so he's not even reprimanded


by rickroll P

it's literally the only thing he does

if his views weren't in line with moderation that behavior would have gotten him banned long ago - but alas he's a friendly ally so he's not even reprimanded

Hey aren't you the guy that claimed to put me on ignore, why do you keep subtweeting me and replying and liking posts that criticisize me???


Weird.


by Elrazor P

Thank you for your post that demonstrates 0% reason, 100% personal insults and numerous grammatical errors.

Erm, you are telling me you thought this:

"Yah, but it turns out that sex is far more important than gender when it comes to performance in sporting competitions."

was deserving of some substantive reasoned response?


by Elrazor P

However, would you agree that there are mentally ill people who think they are trans?

Can we maybe stop implying people who say they are trans might just be mentally ill?

Really sad to see these narratives still perpetuating on this forum.


by uke_master P

Can we maybe stop implying people who say they are trans might just be mentally ill?

From the Cass review:

The association is likely to be complex and bidirectional - that is, in some individuals, preceding mental ill health (such as anxiety, depression, OCD, eating disorders), may result in uncertainty around gender identity and therefore contribute to a presentation of gender related distress. In such circumstances, treating the mental health disorder and strengthening an individual’s sense of self may help to address some issues relating to gender identity. For other individuals, gender-related distress may be the primary concern and living with this distress may be the cause of subsequent mental ill health.


The problem with your statement - of course - is not that it is a factual impossibility, but the way it contributes to the narrative. That is, the endless pushing of a narrative that recenters conversations about trans people around mental health and trnas people not really being trans, just mentally unhealthy. No matter where it starts, the whole 'doncha know mentally unhealthy people might say they are trans' bit gets dropped in.


by Elrazor P

I agree trans is not a mental illness, and it's sad it needs stating. Gender Dysphoria might be, but not trans per se.

However, would you agree that there are mentally ill people who think they are trans?

There are mentally ill people who obsess over transness


by uke_master P

The problem with your statement - of course - is not that it is a factual impossibility, but the way it contributes to the narrative. That is, the endless pushing of a narrative that recenters conversations about trans people around mental health and trnas people not really being trans, just mentally unhealthy. No matter where it starts, the whole 'doncha know mentally unhealthy people might say they are trans' bit gets dropped in.

What exactly is "the narrative", and how does my statement contribute to it?


by Elrazor P

What exactly is "the narrative", and how does my statement contribute to it?

Mental health is weaponized against trans people in many ways by the anti-trans crowd, perhaps none more so than the fake trans narrative which tries to center the conversation around casting doubt on people who say they are trans. Surely you've at least noticed this, or is this something you really need explained in more detail?


by uke_master P

Mental health is weaponized against trans people in many ways by the anti-trans crowd. Surely you've at least noticed this, or is this something you really need explained in more detail?

I've noted this many times, most recently about an hour ago:

by Elrazor P

I agree trans is not a mental illness, and it's sad it needs stating.

However, would you not agree that it's a simple statement of fact that some people who are mentally ill mistakenly believe they are trans. The issue here is that from a societal and healthcare perspective, it's important to acknowledge this to ensure that these mentally ill people receive appropriate diagnosis and treatment. In other words, not the treatments like the affirmative model that discounts mental illness as a potential cause, and risks misdiagnosis and irreversible physical and psychological damage to the patient.


Someone who identifies as trans and happens to have the label of mentally ill — how is this person a less valid trans person?

How can someone identify as trans and believe they are trans, but not actually be trans? Please explain in detail.


by Elrazor P

However, would you agree that there are mentally ill people who think they are trans?

Yes, I've acknowledged this many times before. I do want to be clear again, though -- discussion that implies that all trans people are mentally ill or that being trans is itself a mental illness is not allowed.


by uke_master P

Mental health is weaponized against trans people in many ways by the anti-trans crowd, perhaps none more so than the fake trans narrative which tries to center the conversation around casting doubt on people who say they are trans. Surely you've at least noticed this, or is this something you really need explained in more detail?

fact is a portion of people who self identify as trans while minors stop doing so later in life.

and even a low rate of that happening is more than enough to ban any procedure with permanent results while minor, because first do no harm.

that would have been uncontroversial in the past, and it was until recently.

But given a lot of you guys still want to be able to prescribe puberty blockers to minors who self identify as trans, then hormones then surgery, that's why a lot of the discourse is about people who self identify as trans but actually aren't.

there is then some such discourse about people who self identify as trans potentially for personal gain, in sports and to be imprisoned with women while actually being men, but it's less relevant and easier to fix (not hard at all to use biological sex for imprisoning and for sports)


by coordi P

There are mentally ill people who obsess over transness

yes that describes a lot of radical leftists (notoriously people who self identify as very liberal are far more often mentally ill than people who self identify as very conservative)


Puberty blockers seem fine as long as taken after starting puberty. Nobody wants 13 years olds getting surgery unless its to address a specific health concern. Generally you'd give someone 5-6 years (or more) to confirm they really want transition surgery. That will be plenty of time for most kids to turn 18 and also sort it out themselves.

Healthcare can't be catered for the 1/100. That is dumb, and bad, and probably cruel


by coordi P

Puberty blockers seem fine as long as taken after starting puberty. Nobody wants 13 years olds getting surgery unless its to address a specific health concern. Generally you'd give someone 5-6 years (or more) to confirm they really want transition surgery. That will be plenty of time for most kids to turn 18 and also sort it out themselves.

Healthcare can't be catered for the 1/100. That is dumb, and bad, and probably cruel

well tell that to governor Tim Walz who signed a bill to the contrary (allowing surgery and sterilizing hormones to minors) and is very proud about it.

the law also requires Minnesota officials to refuse to comply with court orders from out of state in cases of custody and so on when it's about trans minors who went to Minnesota to get sterilized and mutilated


by Luciom P

well tell that to governor Tim Walz who signed a bill to the contrary (allowing surgery and sterilizing hormones to minors) and is very proud about it.

the law also requires Minnesota officials to refuse to comply with court orders from out of state in cases of custody and so on when it's about trans minors who went to Minnesota to get sterilized and mutilated

Patients either have to be 16 or 14 to start HRT in Minnesota and they still have to have parental consent


by Luciom P

yes that describes a lot of radical leftists (notoriously people who self identify as very liberal are far more often mentally ill than people who self identify as very conservative)

Many mental illnesses are correlated to higher IQ

Totally unrelated to your point 😀


by coordi P

Patients either have to be 16 or 14 to start HRT in Minnesota and they still have to have parental consent

Is it 14 or 16, what does that mean? anyway, in both cases it's minors being sterilized yes, as i wrote.


So durability of identification - that’s what differentiates the valid trans person? Is that the claim now?

Is “true gender” no longer a thing? Nor are male and female brains?


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