The costs of trans visibility

I also think English native speakers don't understand what it feels like to use they for people who don't have singular they in their language

If they’re not pretending, then what are they doing? Since we all know that a man is a man and that cannot change, and a woman cannot stop being a woman, if not pretending, then what is it?

Sincerely held beliefs can be false in an objective sense and yet you can live according to them.

The matter in the USA is often discussed when religious exceptions are requested.

Some people might pretend to have religious convictions for personal gain, others can hold those convictions sincerely.

So...

You have nothing. Awesome.

I don’t deny that trans people exist either, meaning there are many who identify with the trans identity. It’s just that all of you are kidding yourselves if you think there is any concrete science at the foundation of who is “actually trans”. There’s only the trans identity and identification with the the trans identity. That is it. The so called gender experts are simply guessing who among the trans identifying are going to endure. The durability of identification - those are the “actual trans” in their mind.

This creates a conflict of interest. The trans affirming professionals are highly incentivized to protect and preserve the legitimacy of the trans identity as a solution to despair + suicidal ideation (when it’s not a solution), and the desistors are a threat that need to be undermined and suppressed. They do this in the name of the trans community while not mentioning that they are also covering their own a**.

This is a poker forum. Everyone here should be familiar with the concept of chasing losses. Rather than truly self reflect, the trans affirming professionals are determined to produce more trans youth in the future as a way to justify to themselves what they have already done up to this point.

They don't have to guess, trans people tell them!

Less than 1% of transitioned individuals express "regret" with their transition.

Can less than 1% of people claim they don't regret their taco bell from last night?

I wont prescribe to the conspiracy theory that a subsection of medicine is broadly corrupt and acting against the interest of the individual to make money. Thats loony and awful and probably more a reflection of something within yourself than any reality we live in. (Actual medicine, not talking cosmetic surgery or whatever gotcha you want to bring up)

I don't need "science TM" to recognize that some people exist that have lived for years now as the opposite sex, taking hormones and modifying their body to look more like the opposite sex does and feel more like the opposite sex more and so on, and i accept to give them a name to describe this, and call them trans people.

And yes the constancy in their living as the opposite sex is very relevant and yes self-identification alone obviously isn't enough

That's a made up claim, yet again, one of many, "science" strikes again

Considering the fact that anti-trans rhetoric is considered unkind the inevitable outcome is that I have ''nothing'' because I'll get banned. You know this, it's how you silence people who disagree with your nonsense.

With that being said, anytime someone says ''the scientific consensus is that puberty blockers have no permanent side affect if started after puberty has started.'' you do well to just laugh at their silliness.

Every time I say something that has been supported in a study that I've posted previously you claim its made up and post nothing

Thats not... typically how these things work

A whole study. Scientific consensus strikes again!

I dunno you could post something peer reviewed or even remotely scientific to support your view. That would definitely give you some wiggle room to be a hateful bigot.

I've posted like 20+ studies in the thread

So we're supposed to worry about your feels now?

Only if you want to understand why trans activism is losing almost every battle in the last 2+ years in the court of worldwide public opinion, not otherwise.

Isn't the entire trans position based on ''feels''? Seems only fair to worry about my feels if I am expected to accept your feels.

Of course someone who already strongly identifies as trans will want to actualize it, but from a detached POV, what does the trans identity solve for? Further, the chasing losses applies even more to the trans identifying who have endured the high costs of treatment.

Adults are free to choose their culture and lifestyle.

yes

we're also dealing with survivorship bias - something which has not been acknowledged

let's say you have 100 effeminate boys and tomboys born in 1970 - all of them at the age of 6-12 exhibit various atypical gender behaviors and have questions about their identity as a result but they aren't getting the "what are your pronouns" questions from teachers and doctors and thus not implicitly told to explore those options as if that's the norm

flash forward to today, let's say that 4 of them are trans with the rest being happily cisgender

if we then ask those 4 trans people their thoughts about early transition - given that they did ultimately discover themselves as trans and make that transition as an adult - they are going to overwhelmingly say that they would have been happier having made the transition sooner - they would also regret not making the decision before puberty really took over and shaped their bodies in the incorrect form as they'd look much more like their true gender if they had blockers early on

so using that data in a vacuum, one can easily infer that we should go ahead with gender affirming care for youth

but that's incredibly dangerous because that survey leaves out the other 96 children, who would have been making the incorrect decision which at the time would have felt right

kids today are growing up with their doctors and teachers asking them what their gender is - which is incredibly dangerous, because we know how susceptible people are to inception and we have a lengthy history of mental health patients getting false memories of abuse implanted by their doctors

if you can falsely convince someone that their own parents raped and molested them simply by having a respected authoritative figure repeatedly ask about it - then how is that also not something that will happen to a 6 year old tomboy who acts like the boys in her class and not the girls and is repeatedly asked by authoritative figures in her life if she's actually a boy underneath the outward appearance a woman

Tomboys and effeminate boys are not more likely to identify as trans now than they were 20 years ago? Is that what you are claiming?

Jesus. How many times does he have to repeat it, guys.

i want to add that this well studied and documented phenomenon is not because of evil or ill intentioned mental health professionals are trying to set a false narrative

they have the best of intentions

they are trying to help the patient

they've known so many people with similar issues which were solved by discovering and then working on their issues with their repressed traumatic history so that's what they think could be at fault here and in their "quest for the truth" they unwittingly plant the seeds to create a falsehood

that's extremely germane to the conversation of why no gender affirming care should be given to any child whatsoever - they need to make that decision as an adult

I’m also not saying the gender specialists are acting with malicious intent. I’m saying the trans system is a religious system, full of religious followers posturing as science based practitioners.

Some just want to follow the science not knowing the science has been manufactured to support the religion.

oh yeah i agree 100% and didn't mean to imply you thought they were acting maliciously

but i think it's important to emphasize that bad things can happen by people who act with the best of intentions