The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
You mean other than the two young people I know that have transitioned and are very happy? No, I'm not going to send you any proof that they have, so, checkmate I guess? LOL.
What has been proven, though, is your hypocrisy with both "loaded language" and not being "open-minded". And that was the whole point of this conversation.
Two people. Wow! What a huge sample size. Definitely represents the entire trans community.
So, these two people successfully transitioned? In other words, either a fully functional biological man became a fully functional female and can become pregnant and carry a child to term, or, a fully functional woman became a man who can impregnate a woman?
You mean other than the two young people I know that have transitioned and are very happy? No, I'm not going to send you any proof that they have, so, checkmate I guess? LOL.
What has been proven, though, is your hypocrisy with both "loaded language" and not being "open-minded". And that was the whole point of this conversation.
I think we should judge the happiness of people who transition over 40+ years when they fully realize the meaning of having self-sterilized, and having become permanently dependant on drugs without a illness.
It might be they are still happy, but it's not as obvious as we can think from seeing happiness today.
I understand these days not being able to have biological children is considered less big of a deal than in every other time in human history, but it can be the case still that a sizeable portion of human beings feel devoid of any meaning when they reach old age without children especially if they didn't have them out of choice not because of misfortune. just a guess though, I can't in any way prove it.
but I don't think you can't dismiss this as nonsense either
I have seen no evidence that discussing mental health issues that relate to transgender people is not allowed in this thread. The only thing that I have ever seen moderated, and which is explicitly banned, is implying that being transgender is a result of, or is itself, a mental disorder.
as i've said, you've seen no evidence because it is routinely deleted
ie recall phresh coming in hot because he realized his posts were quietly deleted
idk what he wrote, but there's been many good faith efforts to discuss it
and frankly, it's just bizarro world to not allow it be discussed - again not as an attack - when it's weaponized then yes i agree with that banning
but like i said, if you genuinely don't feel like it is not censored, which it feels like that is your believe, by all means go ahead and start trying to have a genuine discussion about mental health here once gansta returns from his cruise and see how long it exists before it disappears into the ether
Overeating itself is not a mental illness, but often is a symptom of one (depression, for example). The liberal left refuses to acknowledge the same about trans. Maybe it’s not an illness in and if itself, but it could be a manifestation of something else. The lack of willingness to explore that is part of the reason no progress in helping these people is being made.
agreed but WHO classifies overeating as a mental health disorder - hence why i used it as an example
meanwhile SCOTUS 5-4 uphelds lower courts findings about Biden admin horrific title iX changed provisions, so for now the federal government can't force colleges to let biological men into women locker rooms, among other things like allowing people accused of sexual misconduct an actual defense instead of what the Biden admin wanted, hanging without recourse
as i've said, you've seen no evidence because it is routinely deleted
ie recall phresh coming in hot because he realized his posts were quietly deleted
idk what he wrote, but there's been many good faith efforts to discuss it
and frankly, it's just bizarro world to not allow it be discussed - again not as an attack - when it's weaponized then yes i agree with that banning
but like i said, if you genuinely don't feel like it is not censored, whi
Sorry rick, but phresh wasn't here for a friendly conversation about what drives the mental health of trans people. He was here to say that transism is made up by crazy people
He also wants to genocide a dog species with 25,000,000 animals
like i said idk what he wrote but the fact remains that there are broad and sweeping classification and discussion of mental health issues
everything from anxiety - ie being nervous about your upcoming performance review is a mental health issue
overeating is a mental health issue
yet, we're forbidden from acknowledging that someone who believes themselves to be born in the wrong body could possibly be a mental health issue and any discussion of it is considered obscene and hateful
- that does nothing for fostering a realistic discussion
- it stigmatizes mental health issues in general
- and most importantly, it's deeply parted from reality
i agree with moderation decisions to delete and discourage people from saying that "trans are a bunch of crazy wack jobs" but it's just dishonest to act like it's unrelated to mental health completely
like i said idk what he wrote but the fact remains that there are broad and sweeping classification and discussion of mental health issues
everything from anxiety - ie being nervous about your upcoming performance review is a mental health issue
overeating is a mental health issue
yet, we're forbidden from acknowledging that someone who believes themselves to be born in the wrong body could possibly be a mental health issue and any discussion
He told the thread what he said and what his opinion is. It’s not a mystery
The problem is that phresh is a toxic moron who has awful thoughts that he thinks are reality when it’s just a thing in his brain
[quote=rickroll]like i said idk what he wrote but the fact remains that there are broad and sweeping classification and discussion of mental health issues
everything from anxiety - ie being nervous about your upcoming performance review is a mental health issue
overeating is a mental health issue
yet, we're forbidden from acknowledging that someone who believes themselves to be born in the wrong body could possibly be a mental health issue and any discussion of it is considered obscene and hateful
that does nothing for fostering a realistic discussion
it stigmatizes mental health issues in general
and most importantly, it's deeply parted from reality
i agree with moderation decisions to delete and discourage people from saying that "trans are a bunch of crazy wack jobs" but it's just dishonest to act like it's unrelated to mental health completely[/quote]
one differentiator is most "mental health issues" / "mental illnesses" are characterized by (1) harmful effects on the people suffering from them, and/or (2) the "patients" themselves wishing they could rid themselves of the issue (e.g. achieve less anxiety, eat less/more, etc).
unclear to me whether either of those things generally apply to transgender people, except due to the social stigma they suffer, which is why people are going out of their way to destigmatize it and definitely not list it in the DSM-5
i think your post insinuates we've overshot on the medicalization of mental health disorders, with which i very much disagree
Well we have objective proof that radical left are mentally ill a lot more than everyone else in society (at least in American data), that's an uncontroversial claim, the controversy is about causality at most (are the mentally ill more attracted to radical leftism for whatever reason, or is radical leftism something that can make you mentally ill often enough? Unclear).
.
You keep saying this. Seeking treatment for mental illness more often isn't the same as being more likely to be mentally ill. Treatment for mental illness is largely elective. Conservatives are far less likely to utilize mental health treatment. That doesn't make conservatives less likely to be mentally ill.
According to the rules of this forum, being completly in denial of actual, objective, measurable reality isn't a mental illness.
For example you aren't allowed to call people who believe rent controls work to make housing more affordable to renters, with higher supply, mentally ill.
Rent control is an extremely fringe issue. This is a terrible example. You'd almost have to be mentally ill to believe that American liberals are pro-rent control. Pretty much no one even talks about it, let alone has a strong stance on it.
Illness shouldn't be stigmatized in general (we shouldn't treat people badly just because they are ill, as if it was their fault), BUT illness that impacts your capacity of contributing to society should be taken into account when... well, you want to contribute to society. And that includes politics.
Banning blind people to fly airplanes isn't stigmatizing them.
Considering any political opinion of a mentally ill person as less valuable, an
But seeing a therapist doesn't make one mentally ill, just as not seeing a therapist doesn't make one mentally stable. Again, you're projecting your own difficulty in forming conclusions onto other people. Someone suffering from anxiety, depression, daddy issues, mommy issues, ADHD, and the like don't lose legitimacy in their political stances for it.
A=A, no matter the messenger.
For as much time and effort you’ve spent in this thread, surely you’ve thought it through, right. Tell me the story in your head of how it’s physiological. Please include how detransitioners fit into your explanation.
Born with the brain and nervous system of a man, genitals of a girl
Detransitioners are a fraction of a percent of a fraction of a percent. Any number of outliers could apply
Born with the brain and nervous system of a man, genitals of a girl
Detransitioners are a fraction of a percent of a fraction of a percent. Any number of outliers could apply
So the gender identity is signaled to the conscious mind from the neuro system?
If so, how universal is this? Does this process only occur in “actual trans”?
Two people. Wow! What a huge sample size. Definitely represents the entire trans community.
Who said anything about the entire trans community? The suggestion I'm pushing back against is that every trans person is either mentally ill or succumbing to social contagion. The total number required to disprove that would be...one. And do you think I just happen to know the only two people in the world who have done this?
If it isn't your contention that every trans person is either mentally ill or succumbing to social contagion, just say so. Otherwise, I'm assuming that is your belief, in which case, LOL.
So, these two people successfully transitioned? In other words, either a fully functional biological man became a fully functional female and can become pregnant and carry a child to term, or, a fully functional woman became a man who can impregnate a woman?
I haven't pried for details like that, because I don't really care. Not sure why you do.
The reason I (self) can know and recognize both my masculine and my feminine side is because my self is not uni-gendered. Can trans know and recognize both masculine and feminine within themself? It seems quite clear they can.
Yet, the trans identity is uni-gendered -> one gender and not the other.
This is why I say the trans identity supplants the self. Still, it’s not the self.
I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure I am following you but I don't currently see a conflict anywhere
I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure I am following you but I don't currently see a conflict anywhere
(1) The self of a trans person has a masculine and feminine side
(2) Having a masculine and feminine side means having both a male and female gender
(3) Trans identity does not have both male and female gender
Therefore, the trans identity cannot be the same as the self.
