The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
he's allowed to talk about it, that's about it
beyond acknowledging that people who are trans also have a non-zero chance of having mental health issues, there's basically no room for discussion on this issue
which is just patently dishonest
to emphasize the point, overeating is classified as a mental health disorder and it would perfectly acceptable to talk about that relationship with obesity but not here
Overeating in general is not a mental health disorder, binge eating is, which is a specifically defined condition. There is also a very obvious causal relationship between eating a lot and obesity. I don't know what you think this is analogous to in the discussion about transgender issues. Is there some defined condition that you think has a causal relationship with someone being transgender? I genuinely don't have the slightest clue what you're getting at.
I have seen no evidence that discussing mental health issues that relate to transgender people is not allowed in this thread. The only thing that I have ever seen moderated, and which is explicitly banned, is implying that being transgender is a result of, or is itself, a mental disorder.
Overeating in general is not a mental health disorder, binge eating is, which is a specifically defined condition. There is also a very obvious causal relationship between eating a lot and obesity. I don't know what you think this is analogous to in the discussion about transgender issues. Is there some defined condition that you think has a causal relationship with someone being transgender? I genuinely don't have the slightest clue what y
if lack of force of will is a mental illness, then overeating is a mental health disorder.
Otherwise is isn't.
But it's either you can always be in control of your action if you are mentally healthy and not intoxicated, or not. I know this is a very controversial topic and that "experts" tend to decide what is "true" or not on the matter, but for me it's not a scientifical topic rather a philosophical one, it's about free will and so on.
I didn’t say “any opposition to trans (sic) has to be hateful”. Public trans people unfortunately often experience a torrent of genuine, undebatable, internet hatred. That can be true alongside reasonable and measured critiques.
And you can’t possibly accuse someone of loaded language and follow that up with “butcher children”.
No wonder your previous account was banned.
I apologize. I stand corrected. “Butcher” is not the appropriate word here. I should’ve written “permanently disfigure.” That is a more accurate description of what occurs.
if lack of force of will is a mental illness, then overeating is a mental health disorder.
Otherwise is isn't.
But it's either you can always be in control of your action if you are mentally healthy and not intoxicated, or not. I know this is a very controversial topic and that "experts" tend to decide what is "true" or not on the matter, but for me it's not a scientifical topic rather a philosophical one, it's about free will and so on.
What I said was that being expected to overcome personal difficulties by force of will results in stigmatising mental health issues. The failure to overcome difficulties by force of will is not itself a mental health issue but may be due to those difficulties stemming from an actual mental health issue.
The last paragraph I mostly agree with.
Well we have objective proof that radical left are mentally ill a lot more than everyone else in society (at least in American data), that's an uncontroversial claim, the controversy is about causality at most (are the mentally ill more attracted to radical leftism for whatever reason, or is radical leftism something that can make you mentally ill often enough? Unclear).
So while being trans isnt a mental illness in any way or form, being an
We need to be fair, hard core Trumpers are every bit as delusional as the extreme left.
Do you not see any hypocrisy in making general statements about the "pro-trans crowd" while complaining about being labeled yourself?
You mean like "those who share their alternate reality" and "allowing surgeons to butcher children"?
"I feel X"
"No, you're wrong. You're actually suffering from mental illness or social contagion."
Gosh, it's difficult to understand why this would cause a strong reaction from some people. 🙄
What have I said that is false?
I amended the “butcher” comment.
“I feel X.” You know what dude, I feel like a billionaire. Doesn’t make it so. And for you to dismiss the social contagion theory, when the pattern fits other social contagions, such as multiple personality disorder (which does not exist in psychiatric literature) is not at all open-minded of you. It’s your lack of willingness to think critically is the problem with the current pro-trans crowd. A child comes in and says, “I’m trans” he or she is immediately placed on an irreversible course of treatment involving drugs that sterilize them and operations that mutilate them. Maybe take a little time with a human being whose frontal lobe, you know, the part of the brain that is able to consider the long term implications of choices, is nowhere near developed.
We need to be fair, hard core Trumpers are every bit as delusional as the extreme left.
According to the rules of this forum, being completly in denial of actual, objective, measurable reality isn't a mental illness.
For example you aren't allowed to call people who believe rent controls work to make housing more affordable to renters, with higher supply, mentally ill.
doesn't look like the stigma of mental illness is reduced on the left tbh, especially given the fury by which people want to underline very clearly that transness and mental illness are very distinct things (something i agree with).
Why do you think the stigma of being mentally ill is lower/nonexistant on the left? can't it just be about women being more leftists, especially young women, and more often mentally ill for example?
This is a very
I’m definitely not in health care, but I do not think mental illness should ever be stigmatized under any circumstances.
Overeating in general is not a mental health disorder, binge eating is, which is a specifically defined condition. There is also a very obvious causal relationship between eating a lot and obesity. I don't know what you think this is analogous to in the discussion about transgender issues. Is there some defined condition that you think has a causal relationship with someone being transgender? I genuinely don't have the slightest clue what y
Overeating itself is not a mental illness, but often is a symptom of one (depression, for example). The liberal left refuses to acknowledge the same about trans. Maybe it’s not an illness in and if itself, but it could be a manifestation of something else. The lack of willingness to explore that is part of the reason no progress in helping these people is being made.
I’m definitely not in health care, but I do not think mental illness should ever be stigmatized under any circumstances.
Illness shouldn't be stigmatized in general (we shouldn't treat people badly just because they are ill, as if it was their fault), BUT illness that impacts your capacity of contributing to society should be taken into account when... well, you want to contribute to society. And that includes politics.
Banning blind people to fly airplanes isn't stigmatizing them.
Considering any political opinion of a mentally ill person as less valuable, and more probably wrong, than the political opinion of a mentally healthy person isn't stigma, it's an objective assessment of the capacity to perceive reality properly by the subject.
A political memeplex that attracts (or causes) mentally ill people much more than the average in the population INHERENTLY loses legitimacy inasmuch as we can agree that deeply mentally ill people won't come to the proper conclusions about reality with the same probability mentally healthy people would.
According to the rules of this forum, being completly in denial of actual, objective, measurable reality isn't a mental illness.
For example you aren't allowed to call people who believe rent controls work to make housing more affordable to renters, with higher supply, mentally ill.
Ti prego, perdonami.
We aren't allowed to call white supremacists and neonazis mentally ill either, since we are listing things off
Considering any political opinion of a mentally ill person as less valuable, and more probably wrong, than the political opinion of a mentally healthy person isn't stigma, it's an objective assessment of the capacity to perceive reality properly by the subject.
A political memeplex that attracts (or causes) mentally ill people much more than the average in the population INHERENTLY loses legitimacy inasmuch as we can agree that deeply mental
High intelligence actually correlates with higher incidence of mental health problems. The assumption you're making that the population of people with mental health issues is less able to come to an accurate political opinion might not just be unsupported, it might be entirely backwards.
I wouldn't really try to make an affirmative case in either direction, just pointing out that you are making a major assumption that is at best somewhat suspect.
Na, i think cheering on the murder of african immigrants because they are black is a sign of mental illness
I thought you wanted them in jail not walking free because of mental illness.
btw more generally thinking evil is mental illness is a mistake imho.
if rationally evil people exist and we don't acknowledge their existence and we rather ascribe true evil to mental illness, they can do more damage to society.
Nothing in the post you're replying to says anything about falsehoods.
Yeah, I saw that. Well done!
“I feel X.” You know what dude, I feel like a billionaire. Doesn’t make it so. And for you to dismiss the social contagion theory, when the pattern fits other social contagions, such as multiple personality disorder (which does not exist in psychiatric literature) is not at all open-minded of you. It’s your lack of willingness to think critically is the problem with the current pro-trans crowd.
I didn't dismiss anything. I expect social contagion is a negligible factor here if it is one, but I've not dismissed it. What I am pushing back against is the idea that anyone who says they are trans is wrong, and that it has to be mental illness or social contagion, and nothing else, because I know with a high degree of certainty that you are incorrect. And if that's your belief, LOL at suggesting anyone else is being "not at all open-minded".
A child comes in and says, “I’m trans” he or she is immediately placed on an irreversible course of treatment involving drugs that sterilize them and operations that mutilate them. Maybe take a little time with a human being whose frontal lobe, you know, the part of the brain that is able to consider the long term implications of choices, is nowhere near developed.
So you complain about the "pro trans crowd" using "loaded language", and then continue with this. LOL.
Nothing in the post you're replying to says anything about falsehoods.
Yeah, I saw that. Well done!
I didn't dismiss anything. I expect social contagion is a negligible factor here if it is one, but I've not dismissed it. What I am pushing back against is the idea that anyone who says they are trans is wrong, and that it has to be mental illness or social contagion, and nothing else, because I know with a high degree of certainty that you are
Prove me wrong then. Fact is, you can’t. All you can do is say I’m wrong, but you cannot provide anything to refute me.
You mean other than the two young people I know that have transitioned and are very happy? No, I'm not going to send you any proof that they have, so, checkmate I guess? LOL.
What has been proven, though, is your hypocrisy with both "loaded language" and not being "open-minded". And that was the whole point of this conversation.
