The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

See https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Guys I'm seriously having "rigged" thoughts about Ignition. I've been playing online since 2007 and have never been a "riggtard" but 5 times ive ran my ignition bankroll up to a certain figure to then be doomswitched losing every big pot over and over until my roll is close to busted. Im playing PLO btw, and I realize the swings but this just doesn't feel right after the 5th time. It's just too coincidental at this stage. Anyone else experienced anything like this?

Haven't you heard Dancers to a Discordant System by Meshuggah? This is the theme song for online poker which was written in 2007 and released to the public in 2008. Do you trust some public or private entity? All it takes is a willingness to defy conscience or have no conscience present to betray your trust and exploit your security flaw which is that you TRUSTED them.

Stand up from your chair right now!!! Point your finger at your computer screen and tell Ignition that you've had it with them!!! Withdraw everything (if they haven't cleaned you already) and uninstall the app. You don't know what your new hobby will be, you don't know what you'll do with all the new time you have available now, BUT IT WONT BE GIVING YOUR LIFE AND YOUR EFFORT TO PSYCHOPATH THIEVES OF ONLINE POKER.

AND WHILE YOURE AT IT. If you want eternal life, good news ITS FREE AS EPHESIANS 2:8-9 SAYS. Believe on Jesus and his finished work on the cross as the payment in full for all your sin past, present and future, ask him to save you like Romans 10:9 says. Now you can cry out to God to get vengeance if you've been wronged by thieves of online poker. AND MORE, YOU CAN PRAY THAT HE WILL RESTORE TO YOU THE YEARS THAT THE LOCUSTS HAVE EATEN.

Is Jesus involved in rigging poker?

I want to post some weird in-game stats on ggpoker. After playing 100k hands on rush and cash, tournaments and spin and gold. I have played 1500 games on spin and gold with a success rate of 33.4%. Out of 1500 games, I played 10x100$ 32 times. Win 2 times, second place 3 times and 27 times 3 place. It's very interesting how I lost absolutely all hands where I dominated by 70%+. Now, overall statistics on tournaments and rush and cash S&G at all in spots. My 2 over card against a pair of 679hands - win 41%. My pair against 2 over cards 615 hands - win 39.5%. My higher pair against lower 383hand - win 74%. My lower par vs higher 355handwin - 15%. The statistics for post flop all in with a opponent flush draw are also interesting. Opponent got a flush 36% of the time. However, in cases where I had AA or KK, the opponent turned post flop all in flush draw in 63% of cases out of 211 hands. I don't want to be paranoid, but these statistics are absolutely out of the question. For example, on pokerstars, after so many hands, my statistics were +- balanced. This seems strange to me, to say the least, and I recommend recreational players to at least consider participating in a game on ggpoker.

Has GGpoker made their code publicly available for scrutiny and testing?

If a guy on the street asked you to play dice with him and had 20 of his friends around him pretending to be playing to make you trust his dice probably aren't loaded, maybe you'd play it for a while. A random streak of bad luck occurs, the likes of which, if you did the math, can be like winning a mini lottery, an anti-lottery if you will. All these other people are winning and losing, ah well, can't win em all, that's just the way she goes, right?

How is GGPoker any different than the man with the loaded dice? Card RNG should be easily verifiable right? Card RNG is such a basic thing to code and should not be some secret proprietary information.
"We don't have hand histories of everybody to help protect fish" HUH??? So I can't check other accounts for basic rng variance, only my own?
Heh yep RNG checks out, it must be bad luck that the 80% of the time I won against other pairs with aces preflop I'm missing a huge chunk of EV. Just part of the game.

These websites are FOREIGN OWNED AND DONT HAVE EVEN 1/10TH THE REGULATION THAT VEGAS CASINOS AND CARDROOMS DO. If you play on GGPoker, it is the same as playing with the friendly lookin fella with the dice game on a side walk. "Ah, he looks trustworthy, what the hell.". That's YOU WHEN YOU CLICK THE LOGIN BUTTON ON GGPOKER.

What are peoples thoughts on the RNG on Pokerbros? Obviously there is no clear evidence that the RNG is rigged for action but it seems that way after playing on other sites and not seeing as many crazy hands all the time. It also seems like the RNG gives you premium top 10% of hands more frequently as well.

I've seen all sorts of crazy hands playing on Bros in a smaller club (non union) with mostly people i know IRL. Quads vs quads, Royal vs quads. Other crazy stuff like having the same hand on each Multi table frequently.

I recently started playing on the Platform Pokernow and the RNG seems be more normal there.

Pokerbros does not have any favor of rigging anything. I used to play here (same as other professionals) for a little while and all seems normal. For sure there is colluding / card sharing or RTA-Player, but i doubt that Pokerbros itself is rigging the RNG. They don't earn via some "fee" but the Diamonds itself, which are not connected with the Playstyle.

In theory they totally would because if it was rigged for action they would make more money off pots reaching cap and players busting rebuying quicker from coolers.

This is because club owners must buy more chips from Pokerbros. Its not cheap and they take 5% chips back from the owners whenever they are sent to the players in the club. So you are always spending money as a club owner and the faster you do it the more money they make.

Diamonds cost real money and you use them to buy the play money chips on the app

Does anyone ever feel like the RNG is rigged for new accounts?

E.g. if you're in an mtt vs someone with less than $10k in cashes, they seem to just click buttons and wind up with some backdoor nuts? Or you keep getting in AA vs their AKo and it comes KKxxx?

Feel like I'm going insane

I'm watching other ppl's allins too and predicting the fresh account 'whale' to win their 2-4 outer, and it's happening an insane amount of the time. I've been thinking this for a long time.

Sites would be incentivised to do this - give new players a 'winning experience' they will chase once RNJesus is turned off.

Other possibilities are I suck, and my ROI has flipped from +40% over 30k mtts to -30 in the past 2 years (feels unlikely as games seem so soft, esp the mistakes ppl make on bubble/ICM incl regs), or I'm in the 0.001% of bad variance (I play with primedope a LOT, even if I were BE it would be almost impossible to get my results, thus I must be a -EV player), and in both instances my ego is searching for ways to explain my extreme downturn.

the only thing you can control are your decisions, don’t worry about anything else

You are probably not playing very well though if primedope says you’re not a winning player over this sample

on the flipside of this, I'm a new account, and can't win a flip to save my life, much less hit a massively -EV spot LOL... I'm currently running MUCH worse on GG than any other site I play on.... if I was really a rigtard, I'd certainly think the RNG is rigged to make new players lose more to get them to re-deposit, but...

variance is a true bitch! 😀

I legit feel like new accounts get a boss tof rsome time. When I opened my account (Iwork from home and needed something to burn time) I was winning a lot. Deposited $20 and ran it up to $150. They gave me like 3 $2.50 tickets for those all in or fold games and I won 1 and cashed in another almost daily, I think they gave me tickets for onw week. Then out of the blue I couldnt win a hand. Lost like 20 of those $2.50 all in or fold in a row and ended up back at aroun $20 and couldnt even beat the $0.50 AIOF. After that it just felt as the usual grind and normal bad beats and suckouts, but yeah, Id definitely say they pump up your numbers and chances for the first 2 weeks or so. Maybe I just got extremely lucky? Again I just wanted to waste time so I log in every now and then to play NL5, and Im ok if I make some beer money. NL5 seems extremely beatable if you play premium hands only, steal blinds and bluff every now and then. A lot of people are going all in with A8 vs AK for instance and you often see guys with 400+ BB sitting at tables.

The most likely scenario is none of the sites are rigged. They are either number one a site that just doesn't spend any money on software upgrades all security or anything like this. Or number two they're just not dealing as randomly as they let us on to believe. Now the reason they get away with this is because they say they're dealing is fair, which it probably is. But fair does not mean random. So for example you're supposed to get pocket aces once every 220 hands on average. Well if you were getting pocket aces once every 150 hands and so was everybody else then that would be fair. So any audit would pass fine because they would say one player was not benefit from this. But I asked you, is this random?

Don't take my word for it. Go call a company called gaming associates. They did alot of audits on sites. Ask them these questions.
1. If a site dealt more aces or kings then it should would u find that in your audit?
2. Is a site able to change a card coming off deck ? Like say turn or river. Let us know the answers they give u. Even tho I can tell what they will be ahead of time, best u hear it for your self.

And they don't pay attention to any of that u listen above. Crime l, health care or any of it. The play attention to what can he them votes so they keep the , I am going laugh now, lmfao "job".;lol. That is all they care about. If the masses started rioting over online poker and threatening to vote for other side it would become a priority. Do nothing politicians. And I hope they stay out of it. They screw up everything anyway

Ignition is the biggest chitbag site online. I am not a rigtard but if I did have to pick one site that could be rigged I would pick ignition.

I'm betting there is still hacked software versions. Only explanation why those 10%'s win 90% of the time on that magical GG-river.

Here's a prime example of what I'm seeing multiple times a day:

Brand new account with $700 in cashes, trolling around, clearly a new rec, but just has 'plot armor'

It feels like my opponents can literally do anything they like unpunished. Hundreds of times per day.

To be clear, I am a pro with a solid wr, and I have lost a substantial amount of money since my return to GG (Nat8)

The MOST common thing is flopping a set and a new player calling down randomly (or even XR spewing off on flop/turn) with underpair to hit a 1-card back-door flush. It just seems like my life now for the last few months.

Yes, i can normally pick out the new accounts. I avoid them especially aipf. I like to call it the xp boost for an unknown time to really get em hooked. The only thing that worries me is when else can the xp boost be turned on.

So the donkeys from reddit have arrived to 2+2 and turned this thread to another rigged nonsense. Sweet. imagine being like paisting level idiot and thinking the games are rigged and still playing there just to prove a point lmfao.

Lol sure you are buddy.

Thank you for your contribution.Very enjoyable

I am in the same situation(over 1M in prizes on stars).What i've seen on gg doesnt compare to any other site.Since i am playing poker,i did not had such bad beats over and over again,in the last year,compared with the play on stars or fulltilt in the last 12 years.If i make a top ten stack,i will either get sucked out by straight vs set, flush vs straight,full over flush or card dead for at least 50 hands.
If you are a poker pro,please tell me when was the last time you had a decent stack(top 10 stack) and it happen to you the way i described?

I started to save hands which are suspicious in any ways and i gathered 95 hands in the last 24 days(i played only 16days in the last 24days)

Anyway,to make it simple..we can talk here and argue for as long as anybody wants,nothing will change,people will still play.I would play on stars if the site would not be close to the death.In the last scandal threads,there were a lot of players who complaing about those problems.I report alot of suspicious hands and havent got an answer till now(for ex board was A J 3 rainbow and the opponent went all in with 62 to make trips).This was in a bounty hunters main event

Feel like some toilet regs from other sites be overestimating their skill level as well as underestimating the enormous variance involved in the massive fields on GG.

Yeah the tinfoil hat stuff needs to stop tbh, of all the sites I’ve played - which is all of them really, GG is by far the best.

Lol.I am embarrased of the way i was losing the entire time.One thing i dont understand is why someone else thinks that they know i played bad or fishy.Since this post was sent to riggie thread,there's no need to update with proof,no one needs this

I have a genuine question and want to hear statistics experts' opinions (if there are any here).

Is it possible for poker sites to generate truly random card distribution over a large sample size (that can be shown with math that it's indeed random) yet still be able to rig the distribution? I understand that RNGs are not truly random, but AFAIK, the random distribution is as good as truly random.

To better understand my question, Dota 2 is a game that uses Pseudo-Random Distribution (PRD) for most of its in-game passive abilities that have a probability of triggering. How it works is that every time an ability does not trigger, the probability of it triggering on the next opportunity increases. Every time it triggers, the probability resets to a base probability. This is done with some math formulae, you can learn more at https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Random_Dis....

It should be possible to use math to show that PRD in Dota 2 is not truly random because there is a theoretical limit to how many times a passive ability does not trigger consecutively. E.g. an ability that has a 50% probability to trigger can never miss 4 times in a row.

So, my question is, is it possible for poker sites to have a similar mechanism unbeknown to players such that math cannot show that they have such a mechanism? IMO, a valid reason for poker sites to have such a mechanism is to limit incredibly lucky or unlucky streaks for players. Whether such a mechanism is healthy is outside the topic for now.

Any result desired can be provided by the correct relevant programming.

There are many reasons why it can be said it would be madness for a site to perhaps "kill the goose that lays a golden egg" by rigging the deal, ("Why me?"; capped rake; it's easier to ban and confiscate; bad press; etc), but reading what the site states about their RNG seems like at least a sensible starting point if a player believes including trust of the randomness of the deal is important before risking amounts of money they are not prepared to lose in following a hobby which costs most participants money in the long run.

For example, PokerStars shows at https://www.pokerstars.uk/rng:

"... We asked this trusted resource to perform an in-depth analysis of the randomness of the output of the RNG ...

https://access.gaminglabs.com/certificat...

... FINDINGS: The random number generator produces unpredictable and statistically random sequences. ...";

whereas, for example, ACR states at https://americascardroom.eu/poker-custom...:

"... 2. NO WARRANTIES BY ACR: ACR disclaims any and all warranties, expressed or implied, in connection with the Software, the Site and the Games, all of which are provided to You “AS IS”. ACR provides You with no warranty or representation whatsoever regarding the Software or Games quality, fitness for purpose, completeness or accuracy. ..."