Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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I had no idea what Viktor was talking about and I am permanently online.
looks like this was propaganda targeting people like you Viktor lol, making you believe propaganda was there just to trigger you or something
maybe!
more likely it was the same atrocity propaganda used to dehumanize Gazans and support the mass murder of civilians. the gratuitous details are similar to all of the other fake accounts of mass rape.
its directed at all of the people that continue to insist the mass rapes occurred of which there are many in this thread and high up in various Western govts like Joe Biden and these German clowns.
Nonsense. There's a lot of unbiased reporting on both Ukraine and China.
If you don't think that Western media is more reliable than Russia's, then lol. Also the reasons they bias things are quite different, with Russia's being far more nefarious. Do you remember that guy you said was spitting facts after he called for exterminating 75%+ of Ukraine's population?
I dont think that bc I dont follow Russian or Chinese media. I dont speak those languages.
and how would you even know if the Western media was unbiased about Russia? its beyond a shadow of a doubt they are massive liars wrt almost all other things. but for this one, they are accurate and unbiased? doesnt make sense to me.
I dont think that bc I dont follow Russian or Chinese media. I dont speak those languages.
and how would you even know if the Western media was unbiased about Russia? its beyond a shadow of a doubt they are massive liars wrt almost all other things. but for this one, they are accurate and unbiased? doesnt make sense to me.
western media unlike Russian and Chinese media isn't a monolith.
we have actual pluralism which is basically how we keep absurd propaganda in check more than dictatorships which actually control the media and so the propaganda.
while democrats controlled media is indeed terrible it doesnt reach Chinese and Russian media levels of terrible , maybe also because Biden opponents aren't all thrown in jail if they work in the media and publish stuff Biden dislikes, which instead is what happens if you publish stuff Putin dislikes in Russia
I said "can", not that they currently are. They are expected to surpass USA's military spending in our lifetime which is a huge deal.
You also can't really compare these 1:1. China's spending is far more than the 1/3 of USA's budget figure suggests.
A lot of things "can" happen of course. When the U.S. decided to chase profits over American security via TPP and Open door trade policies that moved American manufacturing to China and began the Chinese middle class boom, they made a pretty big geopolitical blunder. It was very short sighted, let's just say that.
Whether China does outpace America and its allies is all part of this grand chessboard of course.
And as far as actual budgets, you can say the same about the U.S. There's a lot of "discretionary spending" in the US budget that is actually military, but they don't officially label it that.
You don't need to speak Russian or Chinese to know these things.
I did not call them unbiased, in fact in my previous post I mentioned there is bias. I said they are far more reliable, and I know this because I have taken the time to educate myself on Russia and Ukraine so I can judge both western and russian/ Chinese sources.
It is not even close.
Barak Ravid was in the IDF in their intelligence unit ffs.
the NYT deliberately misinforms people as policy.
CNN needed to route all of its Gaza stories through the Jerusalem office if you remember.
just about everything from mainstream Western outlets about this conflict is pro-Israeli propaganda. likewise, you will never see an unbiased account of the Ukraine War or the anything wrt to China from mainstream press.
When you say things this hyperbolic and absurd, you lose people.
Maybe they were instructed because it's not a genocide, and they need to make sure they get the facts correct, and all their reporters on the same page?
A lot of things "can" happen of course. When the U.S. decided to chase profits over American security via TPP and Open door trade policies that moved American manufacturing to China and began the Chinese middle class boom, they made a pretty big geopolitical blunder. It was very short sighted, let's just say that.
Whether China does outpace America and its allies is all part of this grand chessboard of course.
And as far as actual budgets, y
TPP didn't happen, not sure what you are talking about.
it was signed in 2016 but not ratified, it was polling so bad that even Clinton reneged on it, trump won and he ditched it.
iirc every other country went on with it anyway but not the USA
You don't need to speak Russian or Chinese to know these things.
I did not call them unbiased, in fact in my previous post I mentioned there is bias. I said they are far more reliable, and I know this because I have taken the time to educate myself on Russia and Ukraine so I can judge both western and russian/ Chinese sources.
It is not even close.
Exactly.
There are more checks and balances on one side, and zero on the other... and if you can't figure out why that is, go spend some time in Russia as a reporter. Just make sure to stay away from the staircases and 5th+ story balconies.
TPP didn't happen, not sure what you are talking about.
it was signed in 2016 but not ratified, it was polling so bad that even Clinton reneged on it, trump won and he ditched it.
iirc every other country went on with it anyway but not the USA
Trump pulled out (that wasn't my point), but the U'S', open trade agreements w/ China starting in the 70's moved most US manufacturing there. Which in turn, caused the Chinese middle class boom.
When you say things this hyperbolic and absurd, you lose people.
Maybe they were instructed because it's not a genocide, and they need to make sure they get the facts correct, and all their reporters on the same page?
Im not trying to convince anyone who can read the list of those guidelines and not realize it is blatantly pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian. I mean, they arent even supposed to use the term Palestine lol.
Trump pulled out (that wasn't my point), but the U'S', open trade agreements w/ China starting in the 70's moved most US manufacturing there. Which in turn, caused the Chinese middle class boom.
what was allowed was China entering the WTO, it wasn't open trade, rather regulated trade as with many other countries. tariffs existed and so on.
yes ofc that helped china immensely but it wasn't to the detriment of the USA or the EU (trade isn't 0 sum)
western media unlike Russian and Chinese media isn't a monolith.
we have actual pluralism which is basically how we keep absurd propaganda in check more than dictatorships which actually control the media and so the propaganda.
while democrats controlled media is indeed terrible it doesnt reach Chinese and Russian media levels of terrible , maybe also because Biden opponents aren't all thrown in jail if they work in the media and publish stuf
Exactly.
There are more checks and balances on one side, and zero on the other... and if you can't figure out why that is, go spend some time in Russia as a reporter. Just make sure to stay away from the staircases and 5th+ story balconies.
the UK literally arrested 2 reporters last week.
the West kept Assange in awful conditions for 5 years. and 7 years of house arrest before that.
Germany put out an arrest warrant for Ali Abunimah.
the UK literally arrested 2 reporters last week.
the West kept Assange in awful conditions for 5 years. and 7 years of house arrest before that.
Germany put out an arrest warrant for Ali Abunimah.
yes you need the UK to arrest every single reporter that disagree with the government, not 2, that's the point.
all of them, all the times, and you have Russia.
and it simply doesn't happen
A lot of things "can" happen of course. When the U.S. decided to chase profits over American security via TPP and Open door trade policies that moved American manufacturing to China and began the Chinese middle class boom, they made a pretty big geopolitical blunder. It was very short sighted, let's just say that.
Whether China does outpace America and its allies is all part of this grand chessboard of course.
And as far as actual budgets, y
I would bet that China has more hidden military spending than USA. I was more referring to China's PPP advantage though. Some estimates put their comparative budget as far as purchasing power at nearly 2x what their nominal budget is in comparison to USA's. Related but slightly different to this is the disparity in personnel costs as well. USA spends something close to 300 billion on salaries whereas China spends 80.
As far as procurement and R&D goes, China's military budget is far closer to being on par with USA's than the fact that China spends 1/3 what USA does on its military budget suggests.
Didn't mean to derail into having this be about China though. Was just noting that China is a far more dangerous threat as propaganda goes.
Im not trying to convince anyone who can read the list of those guidelines and not realize it is blatantly pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian. I mean, they arent even supposed to use the term Palestine lol.
It didn't say that... it said, use it sparingly. I think you're not understanding the difference between bias and propaganda.
what was allowed was China entering the WTO, it wasn't open trade, rather regulated trade as with many other countries. tariffs existed and so on.
yes ofc that helped china immensely but it wasn't to the detriment of the USA or the EU (trade isn't 0 sum)
When I originally put TPP, I meant WTO. I'm just tired. 😀 But there was open trade w/ China starting in the 70's, and eventually the WTO was formed and they joined in the late 90's early 2000's. Again... not my point.
What would have happened to China, if America kept it's manufacturing at home (or even in N. America)? This is why America is in this tightrope act w/ China today.
I would bet that China has more hidden military spending than USA. I was more referring to China's PPP advantage though. Some estimates put their comparative budget as far as purchasing power at nearly 2x what their nominal budget is in comparison to USA's. Related but slightly different to this is the disparity in personnel costs as well. USA spends something close to 300 billion on salaries whereas China spends 80.
As far as procurement an
I'm not disagreeing with you about most of what you're saying, except China's military size. I've read the opposite. That China's military and budget is overstated. I actually thought this was a pretty well known fact.
Not personally interested in debating that though, and I don't think it matters much in what we're discussing in here. 😀
Fake news.
😉
damn, didnt know polio could just strike suddenly. just out of nowhere, it just...struck. aww well, no such thing as propaganda in America the Free.
unfortunate for the child at least.
damn, didnt know polio could just strike suddenly. just out of nowhere, it just...struck. aww well, no such thing as propaganda in America the Free.
unfortunate for the child at least.
I'm not even sure of your point, because of course there can be a sudden outbreak of polio.
Do you realize though that the theme in your posting is nearly all of it is very binary. It's either extreme one way or another, as if there's no nuance in any of these arguments.
Of course American can have propaganda, and it's of course going to have it's biases, just like every nation on earth. Nobody is making an argument against that... just you, apparently.
no polio doesnt just suddenly break out. it was caused by Israel if not deliberately introduced as biological warfare.
my point is that most people dont even realize the biases and the propaganda that they are hit with or understand how to process it. this is evident bc you see nothing wrong with this headline.
lets consider a counterfactual, say that Russia obliterated an area and laid siege to it such that clean water, cleaning supplies, medicine and nutrients were almost non-existent. if people started getting polio, then you better believe the headlines would be a lot different.
no polio doesnt just suddenly break out. it was caused by Israel if not deliberately introduced as biological warfare.
my point is that most people dont even realize the biases and the propaganda that they are hit with or understand how to process it. this is evident bc you see nothing wrong with this headline.
lets consider a counterfactual, say that Russia obliterated an area and laid siege to it such that clean water, cleaning supplies,
lol... you're confusing sensationalism in headlines with propaganda. The point of the article, and it even says this, is that because of the war and displacement of families, they haven't been able to administer proper vaccination schedules to infants. The article also states this potential had been warned about for months. So technically, it's not sudden of course, but it they are calling it the first case and potential for more outbreak.
I don't know who you think Israeli's are... but you have a pretty warped perspective on a lot of things in here. The irony in this is all is, someone is definitely been propagandized by this war. It can't possibly be you though, even thought Iran and Russia have overtly been attacking western democracies, and doing everything they can to undermine them.
If Israel set down it's weapons, what do you think would happen? We'd actually see a real genocide happen.... that's what you're not getting. I'm suspecting because you've fallen prey to American MSM is all bad, and essentially, "fake news".
What do you think would happen if Palestine set all its weapons down? There would be peace, as they ARE NOT the initial aggressors here. All the talk about borders is confusing people, because the Muslim world in that area, doesn't recognize any borders. If you gave them any part of Gaza they wanted, it would not stop there. You fail to acknowledge any of this, because...
Because it’s not true
