The costs of trans visibility

That’s not what transmedicalism is. Transmedicalism is centering being trans as a medical condition, and adherents may reject that someone without gender dysphoria and who may not desire medical transition counts as trans. A lot of the discussion ITT occurs through a transmedicalist lens. But rejecting transmedicalism isn’t advocating for medical treatments without a diagnosis!

I fully reject transmedicalism because I don't want to pay for transitions

You responded to Montreal who referred to 5-7 year olds being lied to. Your response was ''I would tell them they can be anything they want to be''. Well you're wrong. The 7 year old boy can't be a girl. How we're still arguing this is absolutely beyond me.

Oh yeah for sure, but I’ve been accused of transmedicalism in the past for wanting a scientific, medical basis for transitioning and for rejecting xenogenders.

Does your notion of transition include social transition, as in you need a medical note before socially transitioning?

Do you think people without gender dysphoria can be trans?

No and in theory yes though it’s rare. I didn’t call myself a transmedicalist though I said others have called me that.

As far as I understand it, gender dysphoria isn't the feeling that one isn't the gender that matches their sex, but the distress caused by that feeling.

Ok. I can see why, your certainly emphasizing medical aspects of being trans in your engagement of the issue, but I don’t think you’ve quite stated the transmedical position precisely, at least from what I’ve seen.

I will say though that I think it’s probably better to see a doctor before attempting social transition though. And this should especially be the instruction for parents thinking about socially transitioning their kids at a very young age.

I guess it checks out that the people calling everyone "transphobic" for stating normal facts about our species also wouldn't register their stances with the homophobia and misogyny they actually are.

For sure. In America it can be a sensitive issue for the reasons mentioned, even for bi, but I get your distinction. I mostly hate the "genital preference" crap, especially since it seems next stop on the "corrupt meaningful language" train.

Your laws covering fetishes is interesting. I assume the law is for what they do in their personal life. I'd be curious if something like AGP counted if they dressed in "women's" clothing at work, whatever that means. Using non-consenting folks with your kink is kind of a requirement of it.

Did you see that Spanish (maybe) politician who uploaded a video of him eating feces? I kind of think that could be grounds for being fired since eating human feces kind of means you're unwell.

Well, we certainly both agree we should tell kids true things for the most part. And I suspect we agree more than you act on what the set of true things is. For instance, unlike the prior characterization of our disagreement being about biology 101 facts, I think you'd agree with probably every biological fact I've ever told my kid. So I wouldn't say "a boy can be a girl" in a biological sense like that their penis will become a vulva (I wouldn't explain sex reassignment surgeries to this age group for a range of reasons), but I might say something like that a boy with a penis might choose to live their life as a girl. They might take a girls name, they might wear dress with long hair and put on makeup, etc - that is mention more age appropriate notions of gender stereotypes that they are already aware of. Those are all true things.

Also worth noting that the children's moral about growing up to be anything they want to be isn't literally true - one can't become a lion or grow a third leg or grow a penis - but that ideal that is found in a million books everywhere is absolutely still an important message to convey to children.

I think that if an action (done outside your job hours) isn't a crime, then you shouldn't be fired in a public job. Haven't seen the video but if Spain has similar laws as Italy it could be a criminal breach of "public decorum", in which case i can see firing being an option

Not sure about the bold, depends on which biological facts about different behavioural propensities between women and men you told your kid

Fair enough. Some of the language in here I wouldn't use but sure, I can agree to most of this.

Normal grammar as you define it. Okay Sparky.

No, normal grammar as every mainstream article talking about trans issues use it. I don’t bug people for not using strange esoteric useage only found in some fringe corner of the internet, I just point out when they screw up basic stuff like confusing adjectives and nouns.

Nobody tells trans children that proper care will CURE suicidal ideation.

We do point out the evidence that shows that suicidal ideation goes down with proper care.

Shocker, I know.

Show your evidence here, please

Is gender affirmation an effective treatment for suicidal ideation?

Absolutely. It’s important to encourage children to identify with the dreamer.

Again, since clearly you missed the point. You're in a thread about TRANS issues. Not the ''Minors having cosmetic breast augmentation surgery'' thread. Saying I don't care about it because it's not being discussed here is just stupid. You know this.

But just to put your mind at ease. I'd like for minors to not have breast surgery either. You good now?

you're also playing with fire here

overwhelming majority of cosmetic surgeries for minors is corrective (well at least it used to be but now with 4% of total cosmetic surgeries being performed on teens that's likely no longer true)

car accidents, genetic defects, etc are all a major cause for cosmetic surgery on minors

yes, there are some that are purely elective

but for example, the 4 people i know who had cosmetic surgery before the age of 18 were 2x cleft palette, 1x nose job after getting hit with a discus, 1x boob job due to a genetic defect that caused one side to be drastically different in size and shape than the other

it's undoubtedly on the rise for purely elective stuff and while i would never allow my children to undergo that while they are children if it were not in the category of the examples above, at the same time, that is a far more benign surgery than any that are gender reaffirming

a woman wanting larger & shapelier breasts is unlikely to be a phase, will not prevent nursing of children in the future, & if they have regrets later, is a much simpler process to undo

none of that can be said for a transman undergoing top surgery where surgeons are not "amplifying" what is already there but instead removing wholesale

Only in those who's suicidal ideation is based around having an unconfirmed gender status.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...

This study seems to show a correlation and there are many others. Certainly something to consider

if you have such studies, would be nice to share them, because every study shared in the thread thus far with a sample size of more than lol always shows the opposite that there's no difference whatsoever, in some studies it's actually worse

notably, in countries where gender reassignment doesn't happen, there is no difference in suicide rates