The costs of trans visibility

Because it’s deceptive if the person they are dating thinks they are dating a biological woman. Very simple.

But “she” really believes she’s woman ?
Should we condemn people believes ? :p
Regardless having a penis or not ..

this has been addressed quite a bit itt

ie there's been a lot of discussion about the deception on the dating apps (as well as them not allowing you to filter by religion/height/education/race etc and you can filter out gay men but not trans woman - which is just dumb because the presence of a penis and ability to have to children is going to be a pretty big thing people choose a partner for

and it's especially troubling since people itt are always complaining about the high rates of murder for trans folks but then happily ignore that the overwhelming majority of those murders were committed by people who were unaware their partner was trans and then found out after

of course this was dismissed as transphobic commentary by some and by some other moderates they thought it was somewhat of an imagined strawman that doesn't take place

and then bryce started sharing pictures of very objectively beautiful trans women in his appeal that they were women and during that phase he shared this video

again, a stunningly beautiful woman, no doubt she of course thrived in her modeling career

and of course, at one point she proudly mentions that she doesn't have to disclose what's between her legs to dating partners and she gets applause

that kind of drove home to at least one moderate that used to post here that "oh wow that actually does happen and it's not something made up by transphobes and I too would care if someone i was dating had a penis or not"

Yes

What someone believes is irrelevant. What reality is , is what’s important

I mean yeah we can quibble about whether she is a woman or not. I tend to define trans women as women for the purposes of social category, but I think that the “trans women are women” argument is a very reductive.

In general I think disclosure is important for dating, but don’t think it’s because they can’t have children. It’s because we shouldn’t be lying to someone about our natal sex to make it easier to get laid. Nobody owes you sex, so everything should be very transparent.

Yes I do find it ironic that people that think a 3 year gap between an 18 year old and a 21 year old is problematic don’t think that nondisclosure is problematic.

Yes i agree but transgender or trans woman certainly don’t right ?

I just try to figure out the most ethical and positive way to integrate them into society without creating unethical situations for people who are cis. In this case I think it’s unethical to keep that side of you hidden just for the sake of your own comfort and increasing the amount of sexual partners you might have.

Normal people don't believe trans woman should compete against women. It's just the trans crowd and their supporters who think this.

Don't know how common this is, but what is even the logistics of a trans woman not disclosing she's packing? Just surprise you? This has nothing to do with laws, just common sense. Some men are not into chicks with dicks and shocker, that's not transphobic. Just like I'm not fatphobic for not wanting to have sex with 1 of the sisters that's on ''1000lb sisters''.

Nondisclosure isn't problematic unless you fear a bad reaction upon discovery but if you do why are you dating that person lol.

Btw you guys are talking about what, 0.1% of biological men living as women? How many of them are so women-passing that after an entire dinner + hang out in some activity pre-sexual touching the partner doesn't pick up they are biological men?

Maybe this is a perception skewed by movies/tv shows or something?

But no one is going to have sex with you if they don't like you having a penis I don't understand the topic tbh.

I'd imagine most trans women are acutely aware of and sensitive to these issues. Don't get me wrong, humans definitely can be shitty and manipulative to increase their chances of sex so I'm sure not every trans person is a perfect angel, but this conversation has a bit of a weird vibe of - once again - centering the conversation on the imagined bad bad trans person.

Nah I was referring to trans woman with no penis .
Are you holding the same view ?

Lot of bad takes ITT. But at least Trump still has most of ya'll beat.

[QUOTE=trump]“The transgender thing is incredible,” he told the Moms for Liberty co-founder Tiffany Justice. “Think of it; your kid goes to school, and he comes home a few days later with an operation. The school decides what’s going to happen with your child.”[/QUOTE]

But it would be fine to gain medals, glory and cash at the expense of other biological women ?

Most of the people - like myself - that support trans inclusion in a bunch of youth sports aren't supporting trans people competing in elite competition like where they would be big cash rewards like scholarships or whatever involved. That is, the focus is more on saying ok the grade 9 trans girl can play with her friends on the school baseball team, but that doesn't mean anything about the olympics or whatever.

a lot can happen between going on a first date and finally taking the underpants off for sex and usually does happen - hence why so many murders take place, a transwoman takes a guy back to her place, they make out, gives him a blowjob, they even spend the night cuddling in bed but then in the morning when he sobers up a bit he realizes what actually took place and reacts with violence

there's even many case where despite the presence of a penis, was able to successfully continue the ruse over years - i imagine though that it requires either a very stupid, naive, or willing participant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_Pei_Pu was a male opera singer involved in a spying case with a french diplomat, shi had even convinced the frenchman that he'd gotten her pregnant and they even raised a child together - the frenchman later came out as gay so it could be the "he knew all along but went along with it because this way he could stay in the closet"

this is an interesting topic actually, probably worthy of its own thread

so for years i believed that ladyboy clients were all gay, bi, or closeted men

then one day it came up in discussion in the presence of a couple of gay friends and they unanimously declared "we're into dudes, why would we be interested in someone who makes themselves look like a woman?" they really sold the idea with the analogy of "would i suddenly want to bang one of them i learned they had a vagina instead of a penis" and the answer was obviously no

since then i made a point of asking a few of the ladyboys i'd hang out with in bars if their average client was gay or straight and again it was unanimously straight men, the idea of a gay man going after one of them was almost an offensive statement as well - they said most only dated woman and the occasional ladyboy and many were married with loving families who just wanted to cheat a bit

and frankly, that makes sense, that ted talk above, if i saw that woman at a bar, that's 100% someone i would have approached and tried to ask out on a date, and also in SEA, the ladyboys were significantly better looking than the women, so much that whenever i saw a stunning woman i could very accurately assume it was a ladyboy

in some of SEA threads here, a bunch of 2p2 posters regularly post about whoring around asia as sexpats and they'll mostly bang female whores but will mix in the occasional ladyboy and when you ask them about it, they just say "they are better looking and it's just something different" - they don't view it as banging a dude despite that they have a penis

for most people i know, at least publicly, a penis is a bit of a deal breaker - as attractive as that ted talker is above, there's just no way i'd be interested in sleeping with her simply due to that one little detail - having said that, if we just had a bunch of drinks and we're engaging in extended foreplay and then it was disclosed, it would be a very confusing "no thanks"

tl;dr - i think for a lot of people who outwardly would say "no way" would indeed go along with it in the heat of the moment

this is also a well known phenomenon of gays chasing straights and taking advantage of the asymmetry between stated preferences of being straight and secret preferences of being bi or closeted

just like gays wouldn't chase straights if it never went anywhere, trans wouldn't pursue love without disclosure if it didn't open up access to more sexual partners

Wookin' pa nub...

in all the wrong places 😀

Yes. I don’t believe surgery makes you a woman.

Agreed with lots of bad takes in this thread. It’d be a lot better without you and the bad takes you post.

this is a really interesting thought experiment - ie if you couldn't tell unless they disclosed it, then would you care once it was disclosed

however, not being able to have children would be a very big issue for me, not insurmountable but it also feels like it hits different when you can't have children because it's a biological male vs can't have children through natural infertility

also, i highly suggest you do some googling of what those franken vaginas look like

but, if we were say one of those species of frogs that could switch between male and female and inseminate eggs one year but then lay eggs another... then it really gets tricky and the honest answer is i have no clue how i'd react

but also, this question is a bit moot, overwhelming majority opt to keep their dick for a multitude of good reasons from risk of complications such as infection, cost of bottom surgery, and inability to have orgasms post-op

I've never seen anyone interested in this subject other than you. When you bring it up people don't engage with the conversation

"This is also a well known phenomenon" - no it isnt. Many of the LGBTQ things you speak authoritatively about are quite literally made up by you

Guy is literally drinking with lady boys regularly.