Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Read again.
ya I read some word salad of idiocy trying to equate the far left with MTG and neo-Nazis bc Tim Pool was getting paid by Russia (lol) while the liberals cheer on a genocide and fund a devastating proxy war.
The only side cheering on genocide is the side which constantly defends Putin, whether or not they say "I don't support Putin" after supporting his narratives.
The far left says the same things as MTG, neo-Nazis, and Tim Poole. I've pointed it out before. We looked MTG's posts and then examined how she says the exact same things parroted by the far left ITT.
We can now examine what they say when getting caught. Poole is saying that he's not being paid to say Russian propaganda, he just happened to come to the same conclusions as what Russian propagandists want him to say so he said it for free. That exact line of reasoning has been used ITT to defend mirroring things said by the far right, and for parroting Russian propaganda.
The chances of anyone independently arriving at these conclusions is near 0, as that Kasparov quote points out. Russia targets extremists on the far right and the far left, and they're so eager to hate America that they fall for it easily; it's no coincidence that they're both parroting the exact same nonsense. There's really no defense against this, so the whataboutism comes out.
the left is opposed to war in Ukraine, genocide of the Palestinians, kids in cages, funding the police state, deporting millions of migrants, war with Iran. the liberals and the far right support all of those things no matter what Tim Poole says.
ffs your team are the people who gave a literal Nazi a standing ovation in Canada recently. your team gives billions in weaponry to the Azov neo-Nazis. look up the origins of NAFO, its fascists all the way down.
What about, what about, what about, what about.
Regarding the stuff related to Ukraine: The leading entity that is opposed to war in Ukraine is Ukraine. They know better than Twitter Tankies what creates a long term peaceful solution for Ukraine. When it suited Russia's interests to have a TEMPORARY peace deal, they began flooding the extremes with propaganda to help their narrative; Tankies were an easy target because they are so short sighted and so eager to paint America and Ukraine as warmongering Nazis.
Citation needed for the billions given to Azov. (Coincidentally a favorite Russian propaganda point. Even more coincidentally this was also said by MTG.)
The origins of NAFO are absolutely anti-fascist. Since there's 0 barrier of entry it attracts some weirdos, but that's a different topic. (I also have no idea how NAFO relates to this other than Tankie Twitter is often attacked by them for constantly posting disinformation.)
twitter tankies. cant refute must ad hominem.
America is a warmongering country. Ukraine people literally dont matter to America. stripping them of their assets and using them to weaken Russia is what matters to the USA. the Ukrainian people have almost no say in what is going on. when are they going to have another election?
and Id bet good money that whatever crap Tim Poole is spewing is not at all the same as the actual real life anti-fascists analysis.
heres the liberal talking points. America is good despite doing genocides all over the world every couple years therefore we should always support the wars America decides are good. just facile cheerleading by some of the most propagandized people in history.
0 proof here. Also this is not the "the origins of NAFO" anyways.
twitter tankies. cant refute must ad hominem.
America is a warmongering country. Ukraine people literally dont matter to America. stripping them of their assets and using them to weaken Russia is what matters to the USA. the Ukrainian people have almost no say in what is going on. when are they going to have another election?
Tankie, Twitter, and Tankie Twitter, are not insults. You can say this stuff all you want, but it is objectively false. Prove any of it.
and Id bet good money that whatever crap Tim Poole is spewing is not at all the same as the actual real life anti-fascists analysis.
heres the liberal talking points. America is good despite doing genocides all over the world every couple years therefore we should always support the wars America decides are good. just facile cheerleading by some of the most propagandized people in history.
These aren't liberal talking points. And more importantly it's a big bunch of whataboutism. As I've said, the whataboutism tends to come out when there's no way to refute what is actually happening.
bro is all but what about Tim Pool?
rofl this is the **** you support
bro is gonna whine about Russian disinfo while living in the most propagandized place in history and believing every bit of it while supporting any suppression of alternative views.
Here is the main section of my post when I brought it up: "A new DoJ indictment alleges that RT employees "covertly fund[ed] and direct[ed]" a US company with $10m in order to push pro-Russia content."
A ridiculous clip of Tim Poole was posted to highlight the absurdity of some of the propaganda. This was the first attempt to make the entire story being about Tim despite him being just part of it:
Tim Poole is part of conversation at hand. Not wars in the Middle East from the last 20 years, not human rights in democracies, not NAFO, not Azov, not kids in cages, not Iran, not even what the Left believes.
rofl this is the **** you support
bro is gonna whine about Russian disinfo while living in the most propagandized place in history and believing every bit of it while supporting any suppression of alternative views.
I don't recall saying I support anything when I replied to that. I stated a fact: there is 0 proof in this tweet. Sucks he got an article taken down from Medium (lol), if it was really the bombshell he's claiming it is then he could have posted it somewhere else... perhaps the platform he's using to complain about Medium.
no I think when you guys are all like we need kill millions to protect human rights, then I think it is worth pointing out how your team has never cared about human rights ever and always done murder for profit. so its just to show how full of **** "liberal democracy" is. and its especially sickening to use it as a cudgel to commit even more crimes and promote even more murder all over the world.
Russia is pro-human rights and USA is not?
Lol, NEITHER country is.
But Russia has been trying to exterminate Ukrainians for almost 100 years now....any wonder they chose to fight with the Nazis against Russia???
Any "human rights" concerned person defending what Putin is doing in Ukraine is a hypocrite clown. If you hate the USA that much and love Russia, then move there. Putin will welcome you with open arms just like he did with Steven Seagal.
Usually when the whataboutism comes out it means there's no defense being offered in Tankie Twitter to parrot.
I guess even the far left is now afraid that they have been getting their cues from the Kremlin, the same as the far right. We have already seen how far left rhetoric mirrors MTG, Maga, and imperialist neo-Nazis.
Can you post up some of this please? I missed it. I have a ton of far left friends... I've never heard any of them talk like maga or mtg about anything. I might need to know how you'd define far left too.... ty!
Russia is pro-human rights and USA is not?
Lol, NEITHER country is.
But Russia has been trying to exterminate Ukrainians for almost 100 years now....any wonder they chose to fight with the Nazis against Russia???
Any "human rights" concerned person defending what Putin is doing in Ukraine is a hypocrite clown. If you hate the USA that much and love Russia, then move there. Putin will welcome you with open arms just like he did with Steven Sea
ofc neither country is. Russia should not be trying to take after the USA. its a good thing they are not nearly as successful at doing genocide as the USA.
but this is a pretty weird thing to say considering how many Ukranians helped the USSR beat the Nazis. orders of magnitude more than joined Hitler and helped with the holocaust. ofc, they dont get standing ovations in Western countries. such things are reserved for Yaroslav Hunka.
Can you post up some of this please? I missed it. I have a ton of far left friends... I've never heard any of them talk like maga or mtg about anything. I might need to know how you'd define far left too.... ty!
I doubt your fat left friends fall into the category we are discussing. "Liberals" as it has been used itt encompasses everyone from Sanders to Trump. "The Left" are leftists who base their identity on USA being bad, and if USA takes a side they must vilify it. In this case that vilification took the form of calling Ukraine a country full of warmongering nazis, denying their right to defend themselves, and amplifying everything bad they've ever done while downplaying everything bad Russia does (often in the form of whataboutism).
Unfortunately the majority of the stuff really breaking down how the extreme right and extreme left are parroting the same Kremlin talking points was lost when this thread was deleted. It's fairly easy to look up though, MTG and MAGA constantly called Ukraine nazis, and so did Tankies. The arguments are the same.
straight up memory holing all the mainstream articles from NYT Guardian Wapo etc from 2014 until 2022 about neo-Nazi problems in Ukraine.
No. No one is doing that actually.
What is being denied is the narrative that this tiny percentage of neo-Nazis is actually the foundation of Ukraine. It's being denied that there was a "Nazi coup" which resulted into a Nazi democracy which then elected a Nazi Jew who then led a Nazi warmongering defense of "Ukronazistan".
The attempts to build this narrative are the exact same as the far right attempts to do so. Which is how some on the far left ITT found themselves declaring that a far right Russian puppet was "spitting fact" for suggesting exterminating 75%+ of Ukrainians.
Sounds like a missile was struck and the explosion hit the f16.
No. No one is doing that actually.
What is being denied is the narrative that this tiny percentage of neo-Nazis is actually the foundation of Ukraine. It's being denied that there was a "Nazi coup" which resulted into a Nazi democracy which then elected a Nazi Jew who then led a Nazi warmongering defense of "Ukronazistan".
The attempts to build this narrative are the exact same as the far right attempts to do so. Which is how some on the fa
strawman aka lying. typical of liberals. anyway, keep supporting slave soldiers dying for the enrichment of the Western elites. its funny how even Hamas doesnt stoop to that level.
"Can't refute, ad hominem". No strawman and no lies in that post.
Calling Ukrainians "slave soldiers" and suggesting they are fighting for the "enrichment of Western elites" and not because their homes are being invaded, their neighbors and children are being forcefully abducted, raped, tortured, brainwashed, etc.... would classify as a strawman and lies though. Coincidentally the same type strawmans and lies that far right propaganda parrots.
many if not most are literally forced to serve in the army. do you understand how conscription works?
Better than you, especially regarding Ukraine. Conscription is not slavery and it's funny how Russia's conscription is never brought up. I am not getting into this particular bit of Russian propaganda again now though.
Distinctive Features of the Contemporary Model for Russian Propaganda:
- 1. High-volume and multichannel
- 2. Rapid, continuous, and repetitive
- 3. Lacks commitment to objective reality
- 4. Lacks commitment to consistency.
I doubt your fat left friends fall into the category we are discussing. "Liberals" as it has been used itt encompasses everyone from Sanders to Trump. "The Left" are leftists who base their identity on USA being bad, and if USA takes a side they must vilify it. In this case that vilification took the form of calling Ukraine a country full of warmongering nazis, denying their right to defend themselves, and amplifying everything bad they've
Hey... no need to call my friends fat. 😉
Ok, so that makes sense. Hating on the USA = far left/right. I have a little bit of a problem w/ that though because those same far left peeps tend to want beneficial things for society, like universal healthcare, paid childcare, public education, etc... far right doesn't seem to want anything that I can point to as beneficial for society. They want to tear it all down. Is it smart to lump these peeps together?
I remember when Tulsi Gabbard was pulling votes away from some of my friends on the left, and I was like... "no, she's clearly in bed w/ the Kremlin." Those were not fun arguments to have w/ good friends.
