Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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this is why we must give them trillions of small precision arms !!!
wait...
tankies cut off the supply of smart bombs so we had to drop a bunch of 500lb bombs on tents. whaddaya gunna do?
all of the pro-Israel people in this thread who spent months swearing up and down that there would be no settlements or full time occupation are gone now.
I have been saying for months that Israel spending so much resources on developing corridors indicates they weren't planning on leaving anytime soon.
Why in the world would Israel make giant corridors and pave them if they weren't going to stay?
I dont know how well you know inter-MENA politics, but by this announcement Turkey is actually indirectly allying with Israel against the Iran axis (which includes Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Houthi, Iraq Shiite groups and Palestinians).
Like most Muslim majority countries, the Muslim street in all all these countries is tremendously antisemitic as a matter of principle; so framing this as being "anti-Israeli" is a way to get their population to buy in. But this is not a negative political development for Israel in any way.
A moderate amount.
I'd agree that Turkey becoming a more credible alternative support for the Palastinians could be very good and even lead to a solution (nort in the short term). Shame we helped **** up turkey as well so it could be very bad.
A huge mistake I think too many make (negotiations are a great example of this) is looking at the current/historical positions and believing that tell us the final positions.
the video of the baby with a diaper but no brain and her scalp flapping about was pretty gruesome and shocking ofc. but I mean, we have all seen that before and Im pretty sure her first words were "Israel has no right to exist" anyway.
but later we also get to see the craters caused by 2k bombs in the sand on tents.
no gore I dont think but you can never be never be too careful with the pro-Israel people.
Spoiler
i guess thats what kopala has been working around the clock on. congrats
Pallyworld?
A moderate amount.
I'd agree that Turkey becoming a more credible alternative support for the Palastinians could be very good and even lead to a solution (nort in the short term). Shame we helped **** up turkey as well so it could be very bad.
A huge mistake I think too many make (negotiations are a great example of this) is looking at the current/historical positions and believing that tell us the final positions.
How did we **** up Turkey? They elected Erdogan, and he dismantled the democracy and jailed most of his political opponents, and made himself more or less a dictator. Pretty standard 3rd world stuff.
Lots of people jumping to conclusions here. Doubtless the tents full of people concealed signs of an underground hospital, which concealed an even further underground tunnel network. This crater is actually clear evidence of minimizing civilian casualties.
How did we **** up Turkey? They elected Erdogan, and he dismantled the democracy and jailed most of his political opponents, and made himself more or less a dictator. Pretty standard 3rd world stuff.
Before they elected erdegan there was a political battle being won by the progressive western focused democratic side vs erdogan. They were desperate to join us as partners and unstead of embracing then with open arms we (the EU) ****ed them over and they lost.
Sorry for the derail. I've banged on enough in the past about what I consider the biggest geopolitical failure of my lifetime. The rest of my post stands - I think turkey will play an increasingly important role with it being very unclear how.
Swiss parliament lower house votes to immediatly suspend all donations to UNRWA . Upper house confirmation still needed.
Before they elected erdegan there was a political battle being won by the progressive western focused democratic side vs erdogan. They were desperate to join us as partners and unstead of embracing then with open arms we (the EU) ****ed them over and they lost.
Sorry for the derail. I've banged on enough in the past about what I consider the biggest geopolitical failure of my lifetime. The rest of my post stands - I think turkey will play an
Erdogan was actually the modernizing one for a while that's the sad part, he then had to pivot because otherwise he would have lost elections.
France (not us, just France) was adamantly against Turkey in the EU since forever that never changed.
Germany as well and probably others
The details can be debated but as turkey began to realise the attitude of the EU, they inevitably moved in a different political direction. The progressive forces we're arguing to join the eu - 'we' ****ed them.
Germany as well and probably others
The details can be debated but as turkey began to realise the attitude of the EU, they inevitably moved in a different political direction. The progressive forces we're arguing to join the eu - 'we' ****ed them.
Erdogan party was already ruling the country when we started negotiations for full membership (in 2005). They didn't fullfill almost anything in 10 years and then human rights violations, Islamization and so on started to creep in
Lots of people jumping to conclusions here. Doubtless the tents full of people concealed signs of an underground hospital, which concealed an even further underground tunnel network. This crater is actually clear evidence of minimizing civilian casualties.
they literally claimed it was a Hamas command center
Erdogan party was already ruling the country when we started negotiations for full membership (in 2005). They didn't fullfill almost anything in 10 years and then human rights violations, Islamization and so on started to creep in
Last post from me on this in this thread. You start far too late. Here's a potted history
Turkey's ambition to join the European Union has gone through multiple ups and downs since the application was first submitted in 1987.
Turkey knows a thing or two about being on the doorstep of the European Union.
The country of almost 85 million people holds the unfortunate record of the longest process to join the bloc: 36 years – and counting. No other candidate state in Eastern Europe or the Western Balkans comes even close to matching Turkey's protracted path to EU membership.
In fact, since Turkey submitted its official application on 14 April 1987 to be part of what was then the European Economic Community (EEC), 16 countries have seen their bids green-lighted, making Ankara's omission even more glaring.
After a continued succession of ups and downs, promises and threats, it has become apparent that Turkey's accession is a unique case of policy-making that Brussels has not quite learned how to manage.
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who believes this crap?
You don't believe Barak?
specifically, in this instance I dont believe the IDF.
but no, in general I dont believe people who served (and maybe still serve) in the notorious Unit 8200 psyop division of the IDF.
Blinken on the IDF investigation: the killing of the American activist in the West Bank was "unjustified and without provocation on her part. No one should be hit by gunfire because they participated in a demonstration. Israel needs to make changes in the way it operates in the West Bank, including in the IDF's opening fire instructions.
There is nothing peaceful about what is going on in the West Bank. Iranian weapons have flooded in and PIJ has more or less staged a coup and taken over in some of the major cities. And Jihadis are openly walking the streets armed and fighting IDF forces.
Now if you want to blame Israeli policy the last 80, 20, 5, 1 year (whatever time frame you want) for contributing to this dysfunction, then go ahead.
However, if you are a "peace" activist who wants to demonstrate in the West Bank right now and mix with armed men carrying machine guns calling for death to the Jews, you have to understand it is going to be very dangerous times indeed.
I am completely amazed at how the Palestinians have just played themselves and allowed themselves to be paws for Iran. Nothing good is going to come of this, but they cant help themselves.
Just a perfect mix for dysfunction. Demographic pyramid skewed extremely young, economic dysfunction, no jobs, boredom, radical religious indoctrination, further radicalization via social media, foreign weapons flowing in.
At some point the West has to accept they completely bungled the Palestinian situation, there is no 2 state solution, and either we have to either use massive military force to squash the resistance (which is not a politically viable solution although it would militarily be simple) or facilitate people leaving the dysfunction.
There is nothing peaceful about what is going on in the West Bank. Iranian weapons have flooded in and PIJ has more or less staged a coup and taken over in some of the major cities. And Jihadis are openly walking the streets armed and fighting IDF forces.
Now if you want to blame Israeli policy the last 80, 20, 5, 1 year (whatever time frame you want) for contributing to this dysfunction, then go ahead.
However, if you are a "peace" activ
Not going to comment on the rest as it's kinda your standard ''the west is bad'' schpiel and can't believe the Palestinians are so dumb bla bla but Israel are behaving like criminals in the West Bank. They should be blamed for it and no I'm not going to excuse them shooting innocent people because they are very dangerous times indeed.
Now with that being said. What does it matter? Pretty sure the illegal settlements have been condemned and ''forbidden'' by every single governing body out there and Israel don't give a ****.
