2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
When you constantly refer to the candidate as Hitler and that we will lose democracy it can lead to actions like this . If this had been an attempt on Joe or Kamala MSNBC and CNN would be blaming Trumps rhetoric
I mean, he is a fascist and this is important enough to merit the occasional mention.
Sure, he is more of a selfish and incompetent moron that stumbled into the ideology rather than one who got it from books or pamphlets. Still, we know from his acts as president that he opposes both democratic elections and peaceful transition of power, engaging in schemes to make the the former irrelevant and block the latter. It also seems clear that his cognitive decline and bouts of paranoia is what fuels his increasingly aggressive promises to oppress political opposition and a free press, but it's not like he did not also engage in it before.
In the hyper-partisan political environment of the US, this represents a clear danger to the Republic, as we see its checks and balances slowly buckling under pressure. The "rhetoric" you decry is mostly politicians bringing this up, as they should.
Meanwhile, your entire post is mostly performative nonsense anyway, because I haven't seen any aspect of Trumpism you aren't willing to defend with a well-placed #bothsidesbad, and he is a man with a long history of directly encouraging political violence.
Legally attempting to overturn the results of an election is not a threat to democracy. Asking for a recount for example is not a threat to democracy.
Shortly after election day, the Defendant also pursued unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results. In so doing, the Defendant perpetrated three criminal conspiracies:
This is what happens when unstable people watch too much Maddow but that's the price of freedom.
lol
but he seems more foreign policy oriented and his views are shared by almost everyone in power and certainly by all of the policy makers. he wants to fight the Russians, fight the Chinese, genocide the Arab Muslims, and enslave the Iranians. very standard liberal Western human rights and democracy.
Why exactly should we pretend like asking for a recount and pressing completely false claims about deliberate riggage are the same thing.
Because until a court tells us it was a criminal attempt, you are bearing responsibility for calling someone a criminal wrt election result overturning (and so a threat to democracy) if you don't wait.
Man even if you have some elements to think someone is a serial rapist, do you see why claiming someone famous is a serial rapist 24/7 on all major media for years might directly endanger that person life? i think you do.
And illegally attempting to overturn election results as a sitting president is a lot worse than being a serial rapist.
lol
but he seems more foreign policy oriented and his views are shared by almost everyone in power and certainly by all of the policy makers. he wants to fight the Russians, fight the Chinese, genocide the Arab Muslims, and enslave the Iranians. very standard liberal Western human rights and democracy.
In that case if only he knew that Trump wants all of those things too he'd have saved himself a long prison sentence.
WTF? I can't have an opinion on the behavior of a politician until that behavior is adjudicated to be criminal? In what world is that the rule? Do you hold yourself to that same standard?
WTF? I can't have an opinion on the behavior of a politician until that behavior is adjudicated to be criminal? In what world is that the rule? Do you hold yourself to that same standard?
you can! same as trump can think elections when rigged and say that.
Just, you can be held morally responsible for actions by others who got convinced by your claims. Same as trump can be considered morally responsible for jan 6 violence.
Not legally though.
For ex i talk about taxes with people i know so badly, that i could be morally responsible if some of them evade taxes.
Masterful gambit, sir
Geniuses all around.
Posobiec just decided to go broke for libel
I think this was the previous indictment which they retired after SCOTUS immunity decision, rewriting it very recently and getting it voted again by a grand jury.
Doesn't matter much though as that still has to be proven in court. Until it does, you can think he is a threat to democracy. But if you say it publicly you are making a conscious choice with consequences.
And one of the predictable consequences is to radicalize people who can becom
From the indictment:
This federal government function—from the point of ascertainment to the certification—is foundational to the United States' democratic process, and until 2021, had operated in a peaceful and orderly manner for more than 130 years. The Defendant's conspiracy to impair, obstruct, and defeat the federal government function through dishonesty, fraud, and deceit included the following manner and means...
The indictment is a public document and makes the claim. Repeating the claims of an indictment has no consequences.
you can! same as trump can think elections when rigged and say that.
Just, you can be held morally responsible for actions by others who got convinced by your claims. Same as trump can be considered morally responsible for jan 6 violence.
Not legally though.
For ex i talk about taxes with people i know so badly, that i could be morally responsible if some of them evade taxes.
Nowhere in any of my recent posts did I say anything one way or the other about criminal responsibility. So what is your point as it relates to my recent posts?
From the indictment:
This federal government function—from the point of ascertainment to the certification—is foundational to the United States' democratic process, and until 2021, had operated in a peaceful and orderly manner for more than 130 years. The Defendant's conspiracy to impair, obstruct, and defeat the federal government function through dishonesty, fraud, and deceit included the following manner and means...
The indict
The man is on record as President of the United States, r
and later on recording asking a state official to (paraphrased).
Anyone who doesn't believe he isn't a threat to the republic are either not paying attention or they are willfully ignorant. These are pretty much the two most damaging acts as an elected head of state can do to a democracy..
The idea that this shouldn't be brought up because it can be dangerous to do so is utterly inane.
The man is on record as President of the United States, refusing to accept peaceful transition of... and later on recording asking a state official to "find him votes" (paraphrased).
Anyone who doesn't believe he isn't a threat to the republic are either not paying attention or they are willfully ignorant. These are pretty much the two most damaging acts as an elected head of state can do to a democracy..
That's not the idea. The idea is that bringing that up can and will increase the chances of violence toward him. Why deny the obvious?
That's not the idea. The idea is that bringing that up can and will increase the chances of violence toward him. Why deny the obvious?
If you are going to pretend like you are just musing about the nature of cause and effect in the universe, then allow me to focus you on the actual question.
Do you think that it is both appropriate and defensible for Democrats to criticize Trump for his behavior after the 2020 election?
That's not the idea. The idea is that bringing that up can and will increase the chances of violence toward him. Why deny the obvious?
It's public information contained in the indictment. Arguing that discussing publicly-available information increases the chances of violence and so should not occur is absurd. And goes against the free-speech positions you've posted in this thread.
Sometimes I think luciom has stupidly outrageous takes just so he can spend the day arguing a point.
