Moderation Questions
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.
This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.
Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.
Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.
So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.
Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.
So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.
We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.
Thanks.
bad faith is bad faith
Its extraordinary how they judge so confidently when they don't even understand what you're saying.
Its extraordinary how they judge so confidently when they don't even understand what you're saying.
As Rococo is fond of pointing out, confusion or misunderstanding on the part of the reader is almost always the fault of the writer. Unless the reader is one of the posters here who didn't make the list, obviously. Or a poster who made the list only as a vehicle for annoying others.
If you don't care about having false beliefs then fair enough
Credulousness is common. It's a matter of degree. Personally I'd rather be confused by confusing stuff until its resolved but ymmv
Its extraordinary how they judge so confidently when they don't even understand what you're saying.
Who didn't understand what Victor was saying? I assumed that he believed that the U.S. and Western Europe forced Russia's hand to a considerable degree, and his most recent post confirms that is what he believes.
I never suggested that he was happy that Russia invaded Ukraine. But now that the invasion has happened, we have to decide who to hold accountable. And Victor has decided that the U.S. and western Europe are more responsible than Russia.
He says that he started off apportioning responsibility 50/50 and only more recently came to the view that Russia was less than 50% responsible. I don't necessarily believe that his thinking evolved in the way he suggests, but it doesn't really matter. My inference seemingly is entirely in line with what he believes now.
rather than just making things up you can read my words. I didnt think Russia would invade bc I thought it was a really bad idea. I didnt support the invasion for obv reasons.
but now that we see what happens when you allow a genocidal Western outpost at your doorstep it makes a lot more sense.
famously genocidal Western outpost, Ukraine
I’m sure you care a lot about the tens of thousands of dead ukrainians just like you do about the palestinians
Who didn't understand what Victor was saying? I assumed that he believed that the U.S. and Western Europe forced Russia's hand to a considerable degree, and his most recent post confirms that is what he believes.
I never suggested that he was happy that Russia invaded Ukraine. But now that the invasion has happened, we have to decide who to hold accountable. And Victor has decided that the U.S. and western Europe are more responsible tha
they were confused about the "genocidal neighbor" paraphrase. that was ofc in reference to Israel. Russia possibly did not want an Israel type Western outpost installed on their doorstep. or Putin is Hitler part 2. (does that make Trump Hitler part 3?)
and I dont think they were confused. as usual they were just responding in bad faith and taking the worst possible interpretation.
Who didn't understand what Victor was saying? I assumed that he believed that the U.S. and Western Europe forced Russia's hand to a considerable degree, and his most recent post confirms that is what he believes.
I never suggested that he was happy that Russia invaded Ukraine. But now that the invasion has happened, we have to decide who to hold accountable. And Victor has decided that the U.S. and western Europe are more responsible tha
I wasn't actually commenting on that beyond some pleasure at seeing the irregular verb - no biggee as you dont use it as a basis of modding.
There can be a lot to unpack about the meanings of blame and responsibility but whatever.
and I dont think they were confused. as usual they were just responding in bad faith and taking the worst possible interpretation.
They may genuinely believe the worst intreptation. Bias is a very strong force.
I agree they were not confused. It did seem pretty obvious but some degreee of confusion was understandable. Or just being plain wrong a lot - at least it could help them undertsand others who believe nonsense so easily.
they were confused about the "genocidal neighbor" paraphrase. that was ofc in reference to Israel. Russia possibly did not want an Israel type Western outpost installed on their doorstep. or Putin is Hitler part 2. (does that make Trump Hitler part 3?)
Didn’t know Putin was a Minority Report style oracle that can detect precrime and preemptively annex a country for that
There can be a lot to unpack about the meanings of blame and responsibility but whatever.
chez,
We are not discussing blame and responsibility on some sort of esoteric, philosophical level. I am using those words in the way they are commonly used in conversation to discuss real world events. If Victor disagrees with the position I am ascribing to him, then I'm sure he will let us know. But I don't think that is the case.
Russia possibly did not want an Israel type Western outpost installed on their doorstep. or Putin is Hitler part 2. (does that make Trump Hitler part 3?)
This is a cheap comparison. We don't have to believe that Putin is Hitler in order to believe that the Russian government, and Putin specifically, bears a large share of the responsibility for the loss of life in Ukraine.
They may genuinely believe the worst intreptation. Bias is a very strong force.
I agree they were not confused. It did seem pretty obvious but some degreee of confusion was understandable. Or just being plain wrong a lot - at least it could help them undertsand others who believe nonsense so easily.
In what way was that the worst interpretation? In what way was is it a bad faith argument?
chez,
We are not discussing blame and responsibility on some sort of esoteric, philosophical level. I am using those words in the way they are commonly used in conversation to discuss real world events. If Victor disagrees with the position I am ascribing to him, then I'm sure he will let us know. But I don't think that is the case.
it's not hi filutin. It's just normal politcs. I frequently defened chamberlain who is blamed by many for appeasment and WW2, sometimes versailles or economics gets blamed etc etc . Dumbing it down by blaming hitler or arguing if hitler was more to blame is just ridicuous. And nothign to do with being symapthetic to hitler or the nazis
Politics is about what we could and should do better. We blame ourselves for our failings and what we need to do better. it's not even clear that saying putin is more to blame makes any sense - putin is part of the problem we should imo be trying to stop.
None of this may apply to victor. Who cares if you want to know he isn't shy he will tell you what he thinks. What does matter I would argue is the terrible mistake of confusing politics with finger pointing.
In what way was that done?
but now that we see what happens when you allow a genocidal Western outpost at your doorstep it makes a lot more sense.
It seems to me that this is suggesting that by not invading Ukraine that Russia could potentially be allowing a genocidal Western outpost at their doorstep. Is that a bad faith interpretation of the argument? If it is then I can't piece together what the argument even is.
Pointing out that since it became independent in 1991 Ukraine has never been a genocidal Western outpost is about as good faith an argument as it comes.
No offense to you as I think you're one of the best posters but it's one hell of a belief that he was talking about ukraine here. Maybe there's a need to check cos how it didn't occur that he might have been referring to israel leaves me a bit staggered.
then it's about trust of the west (mostly the usa) possibly?
Which country at Russia's doorstep is the "genocidal Western outpost" that might become Israel that the argument refers to?
No offense to you as I think you're one of the best posters but it's one hell of a belief that he was talking about ukraine here. Maybe there's a need to check cos how it didn't occur that he might have been referring to israel leaves me a bit staggered.
then it's about trust of the west (mostly the usa) possibly?
Have you heard the expression an open mind is like an open wound? That might apply in your case
In which country is the "genocidal Western outpost" that might become Israel that the argument refers to?
That's not what he said.. A reading is simply dont trust the usa, you've seen how horrific it can get so it can be a serious threat to us. If that's what he means then I agree. Anyone who trusts the usa is nuts imo.
Maybe he means a genocide against russians - you can ask him.
[...] I didnt think Russia would invade bc I thought it was a really bad idea. [...]
but now that we see what happens when you allow a genocidal Western outpost at your doorstep it makes a lot more sense.
I see no other way to tie these two sentences together. He did not think that Russia would invade, but after seeing what Israel has done it makes a lot more sense. Seems pretty to clear to me that this is saying that if Russia didn't invade then Ukraine could become another Israel and Russia would be...
Have you heard the expression an open mind is like an open wound? That might apply in your case
Indeed i have the open wound that thinks we should have stopped putin invading ukraine and having failed that we should back ukraine to win. Soemhow I think that would be much better than blaming putin for invading and then not giving up in the face of all that finger pointing/
Im a sicko
