Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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There's a "surge" of illegal settlements in the West Bank. Settlers are putting up fences on private Palestinian land to separate herders from their flocks. A political culture of cruelty and theft.
Are people that take Palestinian land and then murder Palestinians on it “civilians”?
Dunno...about how Hitler and Ireland? Or you mean Finland? If you're talking about me....yeah, I've talked about how the Finns allied with Hitler and they were not anti-Semitic.
The fins allowed hitler to be in finland as long as he left their jews alone
Not one finnish jew was murdered by Hitler
They have one holocaust memorial in Finland. It's for jews who tried to emigrate to finland and got murdered on the way
Finnish people were not in favor of the final solution
Palestinians today are
Well, you are only right in the sense that Israel has been way too compassionate to the enemy that has declared a generational Jihad against them and vowed their eternal destruction.
Any sensible country would have frog marched the entire population to the borders of Egypt and/or Jordan and left them there when they had the chance. Then yes, everyone would have moved on and the would be peace.
Your understanding of history and current even
I never said that Israel’s lack of winning was due to their compassion.
You don’t seem to grasp how logic works. Earlier you said
“You have this weird mental block that the Palestinian people just want to live in Gaza and the West Bank, make a state and coexist peacefully. If that was the case we would have had peace decades ago.”
Do you understand that if the Palestinian people do want to live in peace , it does not mean we would have had peace decades ago. I don’t think you understand that there are multiple solutions to that problem, and I don’t think you understand what causation means
Additionally, have you ever been trained as a professional soldier? Have any training on fighting a counter insurgency? Done any interviews with occupying forces? Ever ask true combat veterans their thoughts?
just saw the aftermath of Wael Al Dahdouh son's death.
remember Wael Al Dahdouh is the Al Jazeera reporter who's wife and much of the rest of his family was murdered in an air strike early in the war. it killed his wife and daughters and son and grandchildren.
later in the war he was shot by a sniper but managed to escape however a cameraman accompanying him bled out as the Israeli's did not allow paramedics. he basically bled out on twitter as everyone knew where he was and had contact with him.
earlier, today or yesterday, another of his son's who was killed. I saw the aftermath and it appeared that to be a burned out car. as a careful observer, I waited for confirmation from major outlets that that was indeed what happened.
and yep, Israel did a drone strike on a car carrying 2 reporters and killed both.
tell me again they are not targeting innocent journalists.
just saw the aftermath of Wael Al Dahdouh son's death.
remember Wael Al Dahdouh is the Al Jazeera reporter who's wife and much of the rest of his family was murdered in an air strike early in the war. it killed his wife and daughters and son and grandchildren.
later in the war he was shot by a sniper but managed to escape however a cameraman accompanying him bled out as the Israeli's did not allow paramedics. he basically bled out on twitte
terrible, obviously.
could you tell us wtf he was still doing there?
it was his duty to keep his family safe.
he failed them. they gave him an eviction notice,
his building was about to get blown up literally,
why didnt he and his family leave?????
I feel bad for the guy, but have a hard time understanding,
as does everyone I guess.
they blew up his car while he was in a supposed safe area and was on his way to interview people.
what are you talking about with a building? you mean the attack in Oct? maybe they didnt think the Israelis were brutal murdering thug pieces of trash that would murder entire families at once. certainly a stupid point of view in retrospect.
Fwiw civilian paramedics often pick up guns so they aren’t non combatants in the sense you would think of
One reason We use 5.56 is that it causes people to bleed out, which is traumatizing for people that haven’t been shot yet, and they will go into a dangerous area to try and save their buddy. Then we shoot that guy too
A wounded person takes an extra two or three guys out of the fight as they try to save their buddy
Total myth.
Even if true, why weren't their deeds to the land honored and allowed back?
Probably for the same reason none of the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Jewish refugees from Europe or the Middle East had their deeds to the land honored and allowed back.
Obviously a lot of people were displaced in the 1940s and the decades immediately after. And your concept of all of these people, only Arab Muslim refugees from the British mandate of Palestine have any right to return is a rather odd take.
You certainly aren't advocating Mizrahim Jews should be allowed back to their ancestral lands, and most of them lived on them centuries longer than most Palestinians, who were descended from more recent invaders and colonizers.
Fwiw civilian paramedics often pick up guns so they aren’t non combatants in the sense you would think of
One reason We use 5.56 is that it causes people to bleed out, which is traumatizing for people that haven’t been shot yet, and they will go into a dangerous area to try and save their buddy. Then we shoot that guy too
A wounded person takes an extra two or three guys out of the fight as they try to save their buddy
these guys arent carrying guns. dont feed into Hasbara lies.
they blew up his car while he was in a supposed safe area and was on his way to interview people.
what are you talking about with a building? you mean the attack in Oct? maybe they didnt think the Israelis were brutal murdering thug pieces of trash that would murder entire families at once. certainly a stupid point of view in retrospect.
I tried to compare it to the destruction of an old building...
people get ecivtion notes and then they leave. if they dont leave its their own fault, or they are mentally handycapped then its not their fault.
did he and his family leave as they were supposed to?
idf told them to go to the south, so if this all happened in the north people will have little empathy. do you know where his family got killed?
where do all these bombings happen?
if they happen in the south then bad.
if they all happen in the north, thats what has been announced.
I tried to compare it to the destruction of an old building...
people get ecivtion notes and then they leave. if they dont leave its their own fault, or they are mentally handycapped then its not their fault.
did he and his family leave as they were supposed to?
idf told them to go to the south, so if this all happened in the north people will have little empathy. do you know where it happened?
the drone strike assassination on the innocent journalist son from yesterday happened in Khan Younis. that is in the South and is in a designated safe area. (altho, Israel stopped using the word "safe" and now classify things as "safer". understand the distinction.)
the targeted liquidation of his family that happened in Oct occurred in a refugee camp.
stop trying to victim blame.
Total myth.
Even if true, why weren't their deeds to the land honored and allowed back?
I don't expect you to, but i hope you take the time to read this article about the Nabka. Very well written
Israel-haters are fond of citing—and more often, mis-citing—my work in support of their arguments. Let me offer some corrections. . . . In defiance of the will of the international community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947, [the Palestinians] launched hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps destroying that community. But they lost; and one of the results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes. . . . On the local level, in dozens of localities around Palestine, Arab leaders advised or ordered the evacuation of women and children or whole communities. . . .
Most of Palestine’s 700,000 “refugees” fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.
The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became “refugees”—and I put the term in inverted commas, as two-thirds of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country (which is the usual definition of a refugee)—was not a “racist crime” . . . but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.
For example, using detailed notes kept by key players in Haifa, Karsh provides a poignant description of an April 1948 meeting attended by Haifa’s Arab officials, officers of the nascent Israeli military, Mayor Shabtai Levy, and Major General Hugh Stockwell, the British military commander of Haifa. Levy, in tears, begged the Arab notables, some of whom were his personal friends, to tell their people to stay in their homes and promised that no harm would befall them. The Zionists desperately wanted the Arabs of Haifa to stay put in order to show that their new state would treat its minorities well. However, exactly as Stone reported in This Is Israel, the Arab leaders told Levy that they had been ordered out and even threatened by the Arab Higher Committee, chaired by the grand mufti from his exile in Cairo. Karsh quotes the hardly pro-Zionist Stockwell as telling the Arab leaders, “You have made a foolish decision.”
Several years ago, I briefly visited the largest refugee camp in the West Bank: Balata, inside the city of Nablus. Many of the camp’s approximately 20,000 residents are the children, grandchildren, and even great-grandchildren of the Arab citizens of Jaffa who fled their homes in early 1948.
For half a century, the United Nations has administered Balata as a quasi-apartheid welfare ghetto. The Palestinian Authority does not consider the residents of Balata citizens of Palestine; they do not vote on municipal issues, and they receive no PA funding for roads or sanitation. The refugee children—though after 60 years, calling young children “refugees” is absurd—go to separate schools run by UNRWA, the UN’s refugee-relief agency. The “refugees” are crammed into an area of approximately one square kilometer, and municipal officials prohibit them from building outside the camp’s official boundaries, making living conditions ever more cramped as the camp’s population grows. In a building called the Jaffa Cultural Center—financed by the UN, which means our tax dollars—Balata’s young people are undoubtedly nurtured on the myth that someday soon they will return in triumph to their ancestors’ homes by the Mediterranean Sea.
For if Israel and the Palestinians ever managed to hammer out the draft of a peace treaty, Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, would have to go to Balata and explain to its residents that their leaders have been lying to them for 60 years and that they are not going back to Jaffa. Which, to state the obvious again, is one of the main reasons that there has been no peace treaty.
Those are some good excerpts
Nakba denial should be treated like Holocaust denial
the drone strike assassination on the innocent journalist son from yesterday happened in Khan Younis. that is in the South and is in a designated safe area. (altho, Israel stopped using the word "safe" and now classify things as "safer". understand the distinction.)
the targeted liquidation of his family that happened in Oct occurred in a refugee camp.
stop trying to victim blame.
ok thanks. since al jaz. provides all that info of location etc, nobody trusts that. so we are spinning in circles again.
why do they have to blow up refugee camps? that doesnt even make sense. refugee camps are supposed to be a safe zone under control of idf. so no weapons should be there and no blowing up.
why cant idf get this one right?
get them into camps and then no blowing up is needed. wtf are they doing??
here is what these idiots should be doing:
get all children out under the age of 18 or whatever 12.
put them into camps. do not blown them up. same with women.
now idf has total control over them. let them come over the border and keep them detained. boom. problem solved.
= no more blown up children. Im blaming palestine too, that they cant or dont want to get this right. nobody blows up a bunch of innocent kids. you send all children far away, to the farthest side of gaza. and then leave them alone and away from the bs.
victor you certainly are aware that this wouldnt be int he interest of hamas, right? thats not what they want.
blown up children is like their trump card.
ok thanks. since al jaz. provides all that info of location etc, nobody trusts that. so we are spinning in circles again.
why do they have to blow up refugee camps? that doesnt even make sense. refugee camps are supposed to be a safe zone under control of idf. so no weapons should be there and no blowing up.
wait you dont believe the people were actually killed at Khan Younis or at the refugee camp? theres pictures of it bro. theres not a question.
Israel blew up the building housing the innocent family in the refugee camp bc they WANTED TO MURDER THAT FAMILY. sorry for the caps but like, that was the whole point of bombing that building in that spot. it was to purposely kill those people.
like, listen to what I am telling you. Isreal is not going after weapons or Hamas or fighters. they are destroying the Gazan society and they are doing that by killing its smartest, most accomplished, most important, strongest, and most influential people.
wait you dont believe the people were actually killed at Khan Younis or at the refugee camp? theres pictures of it bro. theres not a question.
Israel blew up the building housing the innocent family in the refugee camp bc they WANTED TO MURDER THAT FAMILY. sorry for the caps but like, that was the whole point of bombing that building in that spot. it was to purposely kill those people.
like, listen to what I am telling you. Isreal is not
how did they know where his family is? all of the sudden they have intelligence now? ok if its a idf controlled camp they would know.
but then they wouldnt have to blow them up. they would just do it on the grounds, discreetly Im guessing.
no i dont believe anything anymore like you told me. its all fake and propaganda from both sides.
how did they know where his family is? all of the sudden they have intelligence now? ok if its a idf controlled camp they would know.
but then they wouldnt have to blow them up. they would just do it on the grounds, discreetly Im guessing.
no i dont believe anything anymore like you told me. its all fake and propaganda from both sides.
bro ofc they know where everyone is. its the most surveilled place in the history of mankind.
"I know what will fix things! We just need to take all the children away from their families and round them up into camps!"
-Washoe, noted genius
