Politics and Society Moderation Discussion Only Fans Thread
Hello everyone. I've closed the previous mod thread, and opened this to capture all issues related to moderation policies and actions going forward. I'll kick it off by reposting my intro post from the other thread. Again, I'm happy to be here and look forward to hearing from you.
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Hello everyone.
I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to serve as a moderator in Politics and Society. I asked for this position because I believe we are experiencing a polarization in our politics and society unseen since the 1960s. We may well be at a juncture from which we will either make great progress or suffer great setbacks in regards to our democratic foundations and civil rights over the next few years. So I believe it is important to maintain a forum for discussing these important topics. When the other mods had to step back a bit due to their real life time obligations, I asked to join the mod team to help keep the forum going.
I have not followed this forum in the past, though I have been reading through threads the last few days and made a few posts. This has allowed me to get a sense of the initial impression the forum likely makes on new readers who are deciding if our forum is a place they would like to visit regularly and participate in. While I see some familiar names from the live poker forum, many of you I have not had any interaction with to date. I have no preconceived notions of anyone's posting behavior and will essentially start from a clean slate.
I will shortly post more about my modding approach and give my initial impressions of the forum based on my observations over the last several days. I will be soliciting your input on things you like about the forum that you want to remain, and things you don't like that you would like me to change. Your candid input and feedback is very important to me. Especially, please don't hesitate to let me know if you think a policy or a proposal is a bad idea. I'd rather hear it before it goes into effect than after.
My overall modding principle is simple: Be Nice. Disagreement need not be disrespectful, and everyone must be treated with respect. Calling a poster derogatory names or hurling snarky insults never usefully advances a discussion. It just bogs things down and turns off many would be participants. And it's not nice. Don't do it.
My goal is to have a forum where people with a wide variety of opinions along the political spectrum enjoy expressing and debating their views in a spirited manner, free from insults, bigotry and denigrating comments. If you enjoy discussing these important and often polarizing issues in a passionate, yet respectful manner, I look forward to getting to know you and working with you to create a forum people will enjoy visiting and contributing to. You can be as committed, determined and relentless as you like in advocating for your position. Be persuasive, thought provoking and challenging. But be nice.
I want to thank tame_deuces and King Spew for their support in bringing me onboard and for all the time and effort they have put into making the forum better. While I am taking over most of the day to day modding responsibilities, both are retaining their mod status and superpowers, and will be supporting the forum as their availability permits. And I personally welcome their continued advice and feedback.
Again, I am happy to be here and look forward to getting to know you.
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In any case, this constant deletion of posts for seemingly not adhering to the strict letter of some rule or other is making fluid conversation very difficult. Ok, I get your reasoning for deleting off-topic posts in the "about moderation" thread, but this post was quite literally about moderation. A more cynical man than I might suggest that you eye up every post with the view that it should justify itself for why it shouldn't be deleted, rather than vice versa. Deletion should really be a tool of last-ish resort.
I'm not sure if I have a different understanding of the word "trope" than some of you, or if I am missing the point, but it seems like the argument is that something can't be a trope if it actually happened at some point, whereas my understanding is something can still be a trope even if it happens to this day.
Maybe I didn't see those, but the Dunyain post I'm talking about was squarely in response to this, which is the post that spawned this conversation, the rest of the conversation remaining very much undeleted:
Dunyain's post was something along the lines of "don't read too much into my words when I said that, it was part of a response to poster X who always likes to exaggerate, so I did the same". Are we talking about the same post? To me, th
It was a different post. I let the trope discussion go. In fact I participated in it. The deletions were related to what I described above such as posters saying another poster should be banned.
Ok dude, I mean, your forum, your rules. It seems that the more people try and bend to your rules, the stricter the rules you start enforcing. This whole constant post deletion thing is not for me, and personally I think it just kills any conversation just as soon as it starts to get interesting or entertaining, but I'm not going to try and change your mind on your approach, I'll probably just post less. I imagine some other posters will also have the same attitude.
In any case, this constant deletion of posts for seemingly not adhering to the strict letter of some rule or other is making fluid conversation very difficult. Ok, I get your reasoning for deleting off-topic posts in the "about moderation" thread, but this post was quite literally about moderation. A more cynical man than I might suggest that you eye up every post with the view that it should justify itself for why it shouldn't be deleted,
You are way overthinking it. This thread isn't for multiple posters to discuss how bad they think another poster is, whether or not he is a racist, and whether or not he should be banned. So there is no need to maintain continuity of that discussion.
Ok. Here's a partial quote from a post I deleted. If you feel this type of comment belongs itt then we will just disagree on that.
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Secondly, I never stated dunain isn't a racist and bigoted against Muslims in general (and indeed I called him on it in the Israel thread.) His linking of neo Nazis and generalisations on "Muslims" or "The Muslim world" makes it pretty evident he is.
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No, it's because of his use of anti Semitic tropes. I would feel a ban for dunain would be fully justified also due to his generalisations and bigotry toward Muslims.
It almost seems that we're at the point where "I think this is a stupid view" is acceptable, whereas "I think you are a stupid person" isn't. Lol, they're the same thing.
In fact, if I may make a modest proposal - we do away with following the site-wide rules altogether, and adopt our own: the only rule is that any post violating Strunk & White's "The Elements of Style" is insta-nuked, and serial infractors perma-banned. I would personally be quite interested in participating in such an experiment.
In fact, if I may make a modest proposal - we do away with following the site-wide rules altogether, and adopt our own: the only rule is that any post violating Strunk & White's "The Elements of Style" is insta-nuked, and serial infractors perma-banned. I would personally be quite interested in participating in such an experiment.
You may have a hit there. Go to ATF and propose it since that's where sitewide rules are addressed. You will wow them for sure. 😉
Though it may cause all the mods to lose our high paying positions since that function could prob be automated :(
I'll let bobo take it to the bosses if he deems so appropriate. I'm just a measly soldier, he's the capo.
Though it may cause all the mods to lose our high paying positions since that function could prob be automated :(
Elements of style is not limited to elements of grammar: some of those rules can be pretty subjective. For example:
Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that he make every word tell.
It almost seems that we're at the point where "I think this is a stupid view" is acceptable, whereas "I think you are a stupid person" isn't. Lol, they're the same thing.
Gunna have to strongly disagree with you on this one. I've seen many people on these forums who I would consider at least reasonably intelligent, if not quite smart, post rather questionable things from time to time. I like to think I'm not stupid, but I'm quite sure I've posted stupid things. Sure, there are times when saying someone's post/view/idea is stupid is simply a way of insulting them without doing so directly, but that's not always the case. I've certainly called out some terrible posts without intending to suggest the poster is an idiot. And I'd prefer a forum with less name-calling than more, but a forum where we weren't allowed to call out a bad post would suck IMO.
Gunna have to strongly disagree with you on this one. I've seen many people on these forums who I would consider at least reasonably intelligent, if not quite smart, post rather questionable things from time to time. I like to think I'm not stupid, but I'm quite sure I've posted stupid things. Sure, there are times when saying someone's post/view/idea is stupid is simply a way of insulting them without doing so directly, but that's not alwa
Yeah I guess so, but it's all in the phrasing. "You are a moron" > "What sort of moronic **** is this?" > "This principle you just formulated there could... use work". I'd just be able to call out morons and their ideas with impunity. And where does sarcasm fit into this framework? If I say "You must have eaten your smarties today to even suggest this", everyone knows exactly what I mean.
Yeah I guess so, but it's all in the phrasing. "You are a moron" > "What sort of moronic **** is this?" > "This principle you just formulated there could... use work". I'd just be able to call out morons and their ideas with impunity. And where does sarcasm fit into this framework? If I say "You must have eaten your smarties today to even suggest this", everyone knows exactly what I mean.
Since tone, inflection and facial expressions aren't evident in the written word, it would be cool if someone invented a way to indicate things like humor and sarcasm to avoid misunderstandings. 😀. 😉
Since tone, inflection and facial expressions aren't evident in the written word, it would be cool if someone invented a way to indicate things like humor and sarcasm to avoid misunderstandings. 😀. 😉
Humanity managed to communicate via the written word for multiple millennia without resorting to the use of a base device such as the "emoticon", so it's probably not strictly necessary to convery tone and inflection. Maybe just learn to ****ing write, which goes back to my prior suggestion.
If I had to put an emoticon to indicate sarcasm, my posts would contain about about a 1:1 emoticon : word ratio.
Humanity managed to communicate via the written word for multiple millennia without resorting to the use of a base device such as the "emoticon", so it's probably not strictly necessary to convery tone and inflection. Maybe just learn to ****ing write, which goes back to my prior suggestion.
If I had to put an emoticon to indicate sarcasm, my posts would contain about about a 1:1 emoticon : word ratio.
Maybe 3000 years ago sarcastic *******s hadnt evolved yet. But once they did they spread like wildfire. Plus seems like it could be difficult to express sarcasm when your writing system looks like this. But maybe not.
^^Look like all emoticons to me.
Maybe 3000 years ago sarcastic *******s hadnt evolved yet. But once they did they spread like wildfire. Plus seems like it could be difficult to express sarcasm when your writing system looks like this. But maybe not.
Also, and this is something I learnt accidentally while reading something or other 10-15 years ago - in an evolutionary sense, language is the progenitor of thought, not vice versa. I'm sure this is an abstraction of some pretty complicated science, and someone more knowledgeable could explain this better, but I think that the people who are knowledgeable about these things will say that this soundbite, while a simplification, is true.
Pls feel free to move if this is getting too off-topic, I won't be offended, I promise. The problem is, interesting stuff gets buried, and people don't end up seeing it, because it's in a low traffic thread that most posters don't really check.
Also, and this is something I learnt accidentally while reading something or other 10-15 years ago - in an evolutionary sense, language is the progenitor of thought, not vice versa. I'm sure this is an abstraction of some pretty complicated science, and someone more knowledgeable could explain this better, but I think that the people who are knowledgeable about these things will say that this soundbite, while a simplification, is true.
Pls f
You've actually captured the issue in a nutshell. Why is the mod thread the thread everyone checks for discussions rather than the general discussion thread? The mod thread should be a low volume thread used sparingly for only mod related posts. The general discussion thread is designed for the majority of posts made itt. I think people post here out of force of habit. And so its a difficult habit to break.
You've actually captured the issue in a nutshell. Why is the mod thread the thread everyone checks for discussions rather than the general discussion thread? The mod thread should be a low volume thread used sparingly for only mod related posts. The general discussion thread is designed for the majority of posts made itt. I think people post here out of force of habit. And so its a difficult habit to break.
You'll never break it. People check the mod thread for the new drama. It will always be thus. Also, not to belabour the obvious point, but the mod thread is stickied. It's literally at the top of the ****ing page. Sticky the general thread, and you might get further in your endeavours.
You'll never break it. People check the mod thread for the new drama. It will always be thus. Also, not to belabour the obvious point, but the mod thread is stickied. It's literally at the top of the ****ing page. Sticky the general thread, and you might get further in your endeavours.
Good idea. Done.
Cool. As an experiment - move some of these posts referring to sarcasm, language etc. to the thread now it's stickied. Let's see how much traction it gets.
♥ all you guys
As an experiment, lettuce try a totally different approach to the idea of communication when we want to be mean. Just for a time
D2's recent posts have been full of excellent ideas
