The costs of trans visibility

love the goal post shift coordi, put down the bottle and sleep it off, booze doesn't suit you

I think you missed the first point I was trying to make, but it's a point of contention that I'd rather not go back and forth on. I don't follow bottom of the barrel sources to take their words at face value. I follow them to develop empathy for people who do. It's important to me to not tune out the loudest noises when trying to understand the struggles that other people are going through and why they might make decisions they make

Alright, I’ll sleep it off I guess!

You just argued that polling data is unscientific and unreliable so I asked about official data. I was already aware of the polling information available from the study. It’s one study with a sample size of 1400 though.

And 16% reported attempt is still 50% less than the American study I posted earlier, and 50% contemplation is 2/3rds the 75% reported from the American study.

it is unreliable and no bueno

no disagreement there

but it exists and they are killing themselves at an absurdly high rate despite that society welcomes them openly

that was the entire point and you were like "no such evidence exists"

be better than that man, there was never any reason for an argument here, we both fundamentally view it the same way and agree on it

no i understood that completely

i just think that's a flawed system that inherently leads to bias and poor judgement in an attempt to find empathy that will never be attained without truly walking in their shoes

try having drinks with 5-6 other people and two are trans at a bar and a drunken guy notices and is convinced they are thus prostitutes (they aren't) and tries to solicit them and when that's rejected they want to fight and you leave to avoid confrontation but he is friendly with the bar owner who gets his security to stand in front of your cab (half the group already gone in the 1st cab) and refuse to let you leave so they can pull the guys out of the car and beat them up on the street - all because the guy was upset that he saw two trans women and thought it was just a matter of money and wouldn't take no for an answer

try having a group of nigerians drug dealers walk up and sucker punch you because you told them to stop spitting on the ladyboy at the bar who you didn't even know (nigerians hate trans and like 99% of all nigerians in asia are in drug cartels - if you want drugs in asia just approach the group of africans hanging out in the bar district)

i know what it's like out there, yet i still think it's absurd to put tampons in mens bathrooms, use phrases like pregnant people, put pronouns at the bottom of my emails, and wholeheatedly believe that it was wrong and selfish for lia thomas to compete against cisgender women

I probably mean more like this:

Interim report - Cass Review

Where they have determined there is a problem, including lack of consensus on what gender dysphoria is, how to treat it, and concerns that children presenting with GD do not receive the same standard of care as children accessing other healthcare services which led to the UK's main gender clinic (Tavistock) being shut down.

In that case I think we just have a misunderstanding. I felt that the particular questions you posed, in response to my post about where I listed examples of transgender related topics that I thought would make good discussion topics, did, in fact seek to delegitimize transgender people. i still do. And I explained why in the pm.

But the conclusions you extrapolated to, which you then recently posted as fact, are incorrect. I never said anything about those not being allowed. I never said anything about genetic origins of transgenderism ( which you now have expanded to genetic or organic, whatever organic is supposed to mean in this cas). I didnt delete your post or ban you for those comments.

So when you post that forum users cant talk about it because I said its not allowed and only discussions about genetic factors is allowed, you are attributing things to me I didnt say and is not forum policy. I had actually expected or original discussion to continue with you saying why you felt those were valid topics for discussion and why I thought they were deligitimizing. Unfortunately you.chose to come back with "**** off" instead which brought thinks to a grinding halt.

So I hope that clears things up. It can get confusing when a mod participates in any topic thread because it hard for posters to determine if the mod is expressing a personal opinion or a mod opinion. That's why I usually stay out of the most heated discussions.

You didn’t, but that’s ok. Edit: Correct me if I’m wrong, but what I assumed was that you were trying to draw parallels between poor mental health and gender identity issues thus a higher rate of suicide. My point was that this isn’t solely a gender identity thing

I think we fundamentally disagree on what the big picture is when the conversation continually circles back to these things that aren’t really a big deal in relation to what else is going on

If it makes people who are often made to feel less than feel more heard to do something as simple as calling people by their preferred (or they, I just say they when referring to most people now) or to not say words that I did when I was a kid, I’d rather just give it to them so they have a little less to worry about since it’s harder on average to be marginalised

So now I say they, I don’t say the f word or the n word in rap songs. It’s really not a big deal and something that I don’t think about unless people bring the conversation of trans issues down to the level of pronouns, what should be the easiest issue of many that need to be unpacked

OK...it seems like you're looking for disagreement where there is none. That's the type of thing I'm talking about. Experts in the field studying any possible problems and finding solutions, rather than legislators passing blanket bans on issues they don't understand, and politicians and talking heads spewing bigotry, or pandering to the bigotry of others, for their own ends.

You don’t say 🙄 ♥

I don't support the age 26 cutoff, but I have a pretty good guess that number came from the common idea that a person's brain isn't fully mature until around age 25.

"The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so."

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclope...

It certainly is arbitrary to have a blanket ban on this kind of treatment before age 18, but any age you might choose is going to be arbitrary. It doesn't really make sense that someone in the US isn't allowed to drink at 20 years 364 days of age, but that's the way law works. You could have different age cutoff with the parental approval, like you can join the US military at age 17 instead of having to wait until 18 if your parent agrees. But it's still an arbitrary number. While the US has a confusing patchwork of age requirements for different 'adult' activities, the most common is 18, which is why most here who want an age cutoff have suggested that.

With regard to something uke asked earlier, I also am very strongly against someone 17.5 years of age getting purely cosmetic surgery, even with parental approval, and especially getting breast implants for modeling work. To support that would be supporting the sexualization of a child, in the interests of making money for her parents and whatever corporation she would be doing the modeling for.

A tiny portion of what community? There seem to be a lot more people pushing the need to specify one's pronouns than there are actual trans people.

transition gets paid for, detrans not so much or at all. which is bs. its problematic on so many levels. detrans community is pointing that out, and gets attacked by cultist followers like uke. (not uke himelft, but by members of his group who are much more radical and ignorant, you know the internet mob)

I don’t think either should be allowed till your 18 not 17.5

Yeah, a tiny portion of the lgbtq community made a stink about pronouns then about 50 million dude bros have been crying about it ever since

Still waiting to meet one person who actually blows up about their pronouns. I’m sure it’s a massive issue though and I just don’t experience it in my bubble

from the swedish study. thats when they noticed they ****ed up.

lol

Right, the main issue is people like you.

If the outright ban isn’t supported and letting people get individual medical care isn’t the answer, what is the proposed policy and method of enforcement desired here? All of these yahoos claiming that people shouldn’t be able to get medical treatment in order to protect them from the big business of gender medical professionals.

Do you really think a panel of Washoe, Losern, Rickroll and Button is the answer? These guys can’t even discern whether it’s true that no one is castrating 13 years olds or giving puberty blockers to five year olds.

Really? Uke blows up about it every time he thinks someone uses the wrong pronouns for anyone. And there are others like him all over the place.

Uke is uniquely passionate about it even among this group so I would say your perception of it’s proclivity is skewed

I broadly agree. However, if gender affirming medical professionals in America were not more interested in ideology than medicine, rejecting biological reality in favour of subjectivism and were violating the Hippocratic Oath then they wouldn't have come to the attention of politicians and legislators.

Aghh there you go with the insults . Stick to the facts one person made a reference to 13 year olds and I actually corrected him that the lowest age was 14 .

And your right a panel of us four should never make a decision like this nor should doctors that clearly have a financial interest in the matter. I think we should look to European countries that have some type of universal healthcare like France, Holland, Sweden and Finland that have halted the procedures on children until more research is done .

Try engaging in the conversation instead of insulting folks you disagree with.

So if the medical professionals are partly control by ideology your answer is to put the decision in the hands of politicians— people completely controlled by the majority ideology who mostly have no medical training?

good post.

what about people who just pay out of their pocket though? are these numbers really good accurate numbers?

Id like to confirm these numbers but cant. this is why its said there are no official numbers I guess.