Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
That guy does not speak for Hamas and I could trot out just as many people who specify the fight is with the occupying Zionists and not Jews as a whole. In fact, that is the official Hamas position.
Man the man is the director of the al -aqsa tv which content you tweet constantly 😆
Accept the Jews right to live in their homeland. Move past the River to the Sea. And then, the path to 2 states will emerge. I see no way of it before that crucial moment.
The PLO did that at Oslo back in 1993 when Hamas was only a few years old. No state came. Instead, more settlers. The Palestinians have no negotiating partner.
we werent talking about Hamas. this was your post remember?
it was about Francesca. from those quotes, to me that looks like a 2 state solution!
we can discuss Hamas and Israel's preferences for a 2 state solution next if you like.
You brought up the two state solution issue and I responded that Hamas- who rule Gaza- don't want it. Try to be more coherent. And Francesca is just another crank if her burblings are anything to go by and certainly not a legit or valid source.
Meanwhile Victor's favourite despot and serial poisoner Uncle Vlad invites Victor's favourite Death Cult Hamas for tea, biccies and a comfy chat with all the death cult splinter groups.
You brought up the two state solution issue and I responded that Hamas- who rule Gaza- don't want it. Try to be more coherent. And Francesca is just another crank if her burblings are anything to go by and certainly not a legit or valid source.
we are talking about Francesca, and in particular her comments that you brought up and quoted. her comments are not at all radical and simply reflect a desire for a 2 state solution. Hamas's agenda, nor Israel's who seem to have the same desires as Hamas with regards to a 2 state solution, are relevant to these comments:
and ya, if you want to just play word association with 2 state solution well I could bring up the roll call of damn near every single Israeli leader of the last 75 years saying that will never allow a Palestinian state.
I'm grand mate thanks for asking 😀
we are talking about Francesca, and in particular her comments that you brought up and quoted. her comments are not at all radical and simply reflect a desire for a 2 state solution. Hamas's agenda, nor Israel's who seem to have the same desires as Hamas with regards to a 2 state solution, are relevant to these comments:
There's no mention of a two state solution in her quote I highlighted. This is simply you inferring things subjectively and then being your usual garbled self.
and ya, if you want to just play word association with 2 state solution well I could bring up the roll call of damn near every single Israeli leader of the last 75 years saying that will never allow a Palestinian state.
I'm personally in favour of a two state solution as are plenty of Israelis I'm sure. Again Hamas doesn't want that and again nobody mentioned a two state solution except you which you inferred from a quote that doesn't mention it.
I think that what the director of the hamas tv says, is something hamas wants to be heard.
I am a free speech absolutist so i think all speech including hamas speech can be published.
But viktor can't claim that the guy isn't "speaking for Hamas". It's not an outlier kept on the sidelines. He is one of the most important leaders of hamas and controls one of the propaganda tool.
So if he claims that jews should be assassinated by palestinians anywhere in the world, that's an official Hamas position, and that proves Hamas, and any Hamas supporter, is an antisemite.
not familiar with that one and they dont have much twitter presence afaict.
regardless, this is what wiki said about the guy.
ye it confirms he said he wants to kill all jews.
That he later said something a little less extremist doesn't change anything lol, anyone that at any point in his life says that "all jews should be killed" is as antisemite as the worst nazis were, for life. You don't backtrack on that kind of stuff.
yes I inferred it from her quote. thats exactly what I said! to me, it indicates that she supports or would support a 2 state solution and thus her quote is not radical like you alleged.
I am not sure why you think that ending an occupation and an apartheid regime should be considered radical. maybe you could expound on that. nor am I sure how a 2 state solution could ever occur while there is an occupation and apartheid regime.
ye it confirms he said he wants to kill all jews.
That he later said something a little less extremist doesn't change anything lol, anyone that at any point in his life says that "all jews should be killed" is as antisemite as the worst nazis were, for life. You don't backtrack on that kind of stuff.
ofc you do.
The American landscape had offered Refaat the chance to meet Jews who did not greet him from behind the barrel of an M-16, from inside the cockpit of an F-16, from the turret of a Merkava tank, or behind an occupation administrator’s desk. Refaat described it as his “Malcolm X moment.”
“When Malcolm X was in prison, his sister told him, ‘Elijah Muhammad said Islam is the true religion of black people and the white man is the Devil.’ He thought of every white person he had ever met in his life and realized that he had been harmed in one way or another by every one of them,” Refaat explained. “This is what’s happening to us in Palestine, because you never come face-to-face with a Jewish person who’s not armed to the teeth trying to kill you. And that makes it very hard to break with your prejudice.”
It was not until Refaat visited the United States that he came face-to-face with a Jew who sympathized with his plight as a Palestinian. “When you talk to Jewish people about their lives, they host you in their homes, you spend time with their families, they can educate you in ways beyond imagination because they know about Israel, about Jewish life, about Zionism,” he marveled. “You learn so much because they are insiders. It was the tour to America that changed me in so many ways.”
The copy is really good, Hamas has a good marketing department.
it was a from an University Professor that was murdered in a targeted strike "along with his family"
This stuff is why building the walls and closing borders in 2005ish was such a setback. Conflict went back before that, but it wasn't unusual for Israeli Jews and Palestinians to know each other personally.
Palestinian terrorists were doing real damage back then. You can't have a functional society with that level of terrorism. I mean, if someone has to choose between being a functional society and working towards some hypothetical peace, they are always going to choose the former. Like I said, there needs to be a completely different incentive structure where it isn't perceived it is one or the other.
Clearly the moderation team has decided it is fine for Victor to post Hamas propaganda. But there is little point discussing most of the specifics as if they are actually true, because they aren't.
This stuff is why building the walls and closing borders in 2005ish was such a setback. Conflict went back before that, but it wasn't unusual for Israeli Jews and Palestinians to know each other personally.
I think you also discount how big a deal 10/7 was from the perspective where Israel was actually letting in Palestinian workers, and immediately after 10/7 Hamas went on to brag it was all a feint to trick the Jews and do reconnaissance to plan the attack. And no one condemned this rhetoric at all. It was widely supported and defended.
In fact there was a lot of social media activity where West Bank Palestinian workers were going on social media to brag about how they were sabotaging Israel infrastructure in solidarity. I am guessing this was only a small number of people, and it was just amplified on social media, but still there was no one saying this was wrong and a lot of people affirming it wasn't.
Like I said, there really does appear to be no gesture Israel could make that would not be cynically exploited by Palestinian/Iranian interests that want to derail any hypothetical peace. And unfortunately for parochial/tribal/religious reasons no one will oppose these bad faith actors. In fact, they are invariably widely supported and celebrated.
Just a horrible incentive structure if you are trying to persuade Israel to work towards peace.
is Channel 14 news in Israel Hamas propaganda? what about tiktoks from Israeli soldiers?
I do find it interesting how when influential Hamas leaders make comments that dont fit your preferred narrative, you proclaim they dont actually speak for Hamas.
But when random Israeli soldiers with no power or influence make comments that do fit your worldview, they do speak for their entire country.
Funny how that works.
theres a difference between comments and actions. we dont have very many videos of Hamas committing atrocities and certainly nothing of the scale that Israel is doing. thats the difference.
Clearly the moderation team has decided it is fine for Victor to post Hamas propaganda. But there is little point discussing most of the specifics as if they are actually true, because they aren't.
Why’re you discussing the moderation team and their inferred feelings before answering the direct yes or no question I asked you?
Please answer the question, it is a yes or no answer, all other answers will not satisfy as an answer
I do find it interesting how when influential Hamas leaders make comments that dont fit your preferred narrative, you proclaim they dont actually speak for Hamas.
But when random Israeli soldiers with no power or influence make comments that do fit your worldview, they do speak for their entire country.
Funny how that works.
So if I post a clip of an Israeli leader calling for death of all Palestinians then your comment is invalid ?
