US Immigration Crisis
I didn’t see an immigration thread so I figured I would add one. This problem seems to be worsening everyday of the current admin. Hopefully some of our new elected officials can help with this. Mr. Luttrell is a great start
Brilliant article on this
I'm about halfway through but might have to stop for fear of having nightmares. Disturbing stuff.
He didn't advocate anything, but you're hating on freedom and asking the government to decide things.
You know what would happen if far fewer low skilled immigrants willing to work in chicken processing facilities were available?
More automation IE more productivity, better per Capita GDP, without social costs.
A few more high skilled jobs that allow for a fulfilling life, family formation, decent housing for the tech guys.
And ofc higher wages for low skilled Americans in the short term phase until the automation comes online.
You are advocati
That article that MB posted makes it seem like there is lots of automation but that it's still a pretty labor intensive industry.
The end result would just be higher chicken prices though and nothing else-- or the death of the industry altogether and we import all our chicken from China.
That article that MB posted makes it seem like there is lots of automation but that it's still a pretty labor intensive industry.
The end result would just be higher chicken prices though and nothing else-- or the death of the industry altogether and we import all our chicken from China.
That's obviously what the Luciums of the world want. They want as many difficult dirty jobs as far away as possible. The low paid people who do them can either be always abroad or brought in and out like prisoners as they do in the Gulf States, while rich *******s who work clean high paying jobs, productive in the real sense or not, all live in Disneyland.
That article that MB posted makes it seem like there is lots of automation but that it's still a pretty labor intensive industry.
The end result would just be higher chicken prices though and nothing else-- or the death of the industry altogether and we import all our chicken from China.
Ye that's normal, you strike the balance given current wages.
You can also end up importing from places with lower wages which is exactly what maximizes your country wellbeing, you get the benefits of low wages without the costs.
Explain to me why Norwegian people would be better off importing chicken plant workers instead of already processed chicken please.
That's obviously what the Luciums of the world want. They want as many difficult dirty jobs as far away as possible. The low paid people who do them can either be always abroad or brought in and out like prisoners as the do in the Gulf States, while rich *******s who work clean high paying jobs, productive in the real sense or not, all live in Disneyland.
Except the Disney land applies to a lot of the middle class as well, yes.
And then everyone elsewhere get richer too and at some point we automate those **** jobs away, but you don't get up with those now unemployed, now useless and not employable people as your citizens and as a permanent burden.
Not at all sure that increased automation brings about the utopia you're hoping for.
Ye that's normal, you strike the balance given current wages.
You can also end up importing from places with lower wages which is exactly what maximizes your country wellbeing, you get the benefits of low wages without the costs.
Explain to me why Norwegian people would be better off importing chicken plant workers instead of already processed chicken please.
Who said anything about importing people? It's called freedom.
Brilliant article on this
Sad reality is migrant children are ending up in these plants as well
Freedom of imposing costs on others isn't freedom.
Remove costs to others (and all tariffs) then importing people can be about freedom as well.
As long as the kids of the immigrant are automatically enrolled in schools paid by taxpayers for free, treated in hospitals for free and so on, that is never only about freedom for that person, other people freedom is being negatively impacted.
Anyway meat tariffs are particularly high and there are quotas as well, why aren't you advocating as strongly about removing all of that before you ask for foreigners to come working in meat processing plants in the USA?
Tariffs are a reduction of freedom for every single consumer, so much worse than limiting the freedom of a few people to come work in meat processing plants.
Lucium you are all about government engineering the society you want. If you don't want to be a fascist, that leaves socialist.
Lol at the knots you twist yourself into. You hire people with guns to block other people and you call that freedom. Jfc. Just don't pay your taxes if you don't want to. Don't pretend the Italian government forcing you to pay for schools is the fault of someone from Africa.
Anyway meat tariffs are particularly high and there are quotas as well, why aren't you advocating as strongly about removing all of that before you ask for foreigners to come working in meat processing plants in the USA?
Because immigrants living and working in the US isn't a problem for me or anyone else, really. Tough titty about the tariffs; if you want to eat this USDA beef you gotta pay up.
Because immigrants living and working in the US isn't a problem for me or anyone else, really. Tough titty about the tariffs; if you want to eat this USDA beef you gotta pay up.
With no tariffs all prices go down, including those of non imported meat, obviously, as imports are still partial substitutes.
If immigrants aren't a problem for anyone else, why is the incumbent president using the word "illegal" on national tv when talking about the irregular ones? Maybe because all his political consultants actually told him that there are a lot of people for whom immigrants are a problem?
I mean maybe they are all wrong and there is no independent voter who cares about them
I get it, you don't understand freedom for people who aren't you.
This entire argument is a little disingenuous on both sides. You of course are correct to say that the U.S. isn't a crowded country by global standards. You of course are correct that the United States could structure its society to accommodate a larger population. If the United States targeted a 50% increase in population by 2045, I'm sure that would be achievable without much strain. You are probably correct that rigid restrictions on
I contend that the amount that would come, not could come - not some stupid thing like the reactionaries imagine a billion people from India would come - would be a net benefit in everything but the very short term.
Do you disagree?
I've kind of accepted, personally at least, that the left's particular position of open borders is pretty baseless and isn't some refinement or furtherance over the what's in place.
I get the argument for increasing net migration from the economic pov as well as the humanist aspect of offering folks the freedom to freely move but if it can be acknowledged that there are possible situations where zero over sight could cause severe long and short term problems in such a fluid and multifaceted subject matter, then we are really just discussing for a more friendlier immigration policy - which is perfectly fine but very far from open borders.
oh btw the billion immigrants thing isn't some straw man I made up, it's actually the title of a book by a famous pro open borders author (tbf he wanted to reach "just" a billion Americans, so I guess 650m immigrants).
I've kind of accepted, personally at least, that the left's particular position of open borders is pretty baseless and isn't some refinement or furtherance over the what's in place.
I get the argument for increasing net migration from the economic pov as well as the humanist aspect of offering folks the freedom to freely move but if it can be acknowledged that there are possible situations where zero over sight could cause severe long and
Dunno what you're talking about. Maybe you are arguing with Matthew Yglesias?
Again I didn't say anything was impossible.
But, I will say that I think overall for humans in total it's almost impossible that open borders would make things worse. There's a barrier to migration and people need a reason to do it and they do it because they expect to make their life enough better to overcome the obstacles. Theoretically it could make life worse in America. I doubt it would even over a pretty long time period, but it could. But I don't think an American has a right to a better life than a Haitian. If it's better here, they should come, even if it makes my life worse. If I don't like it, I can move somewhere else. I don't own the planet.
And I wouldn't call this "the left's" version of anything. Probably more people who identify as "right" are for absolutely open borders, but, shrug, hardly anyone is.
And I wouldn't call this "the left's" version of anything. Probably more people who identify as "right" are for absolutely open borders, but, shrug, hardly anyone is.
Unless you're referring to the chicken plant owners this seems pretty doubtful.
Definitely agree that it's a right-wing policy but it's the actual right not the cultural right.
