Israel/Palestine thread

not at all, the resolution was in fact calling for the ceasefire (not demanding), as per al jazeera as well

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/22...

But ofc you veto because you want "more" roflmao.

I didnt say anything on the veto. I just said they did not call for an immediate cease fire.

the resolution CALLED for it, didn't DEMAND it, as per al jazeera as well.

I dont need Al Jazeera, I read the actual words of the resolution. I even posted them here.

its not the "called" part that I take issue with. its the "immediate" part.

OK. Unfortunately, I got tied up all day with tests and will be tied up for the next couple of days. So I won't be able to log on much at all, possibly some while in various waiting rooms.

I read through about the last 400 posts quickly, and here are some general comments.

The idea that Palestinian couples are having more kids so they can be part of some grand strategic plan to overthrow Israel, and do so fully expecting that they will likely face a life of starvation and death, but they are good with that because it supports the cause, is, frankly abhorrent as well as unfounded. Palestinian parents, like those of any group of parents around the world, care deeply about the lives of their children and to waive off the existence of the pain and grief they feel at the death of their children, or to somehow blame them for those deaths simply for having the children in the first place is an obscenity.

So that line of discussion needs to stop now. I can hardly think of a worse slur to put on a group of people than that.

There were far too many personal attacks in the last few hundred posts, including both egregious ones and childish ones. I am often reminded by posters that this is an forum of mostly middle aged adults, not children, and should approach modding it as such. Yet I see the very adult-like, witty responses to insults such as suck my dick.

Now, there are a lot of aspects about this current conflict that make it an unusual situation in terms of discussing what is and isnt appropriate irt the conduct of the war, the status of civilians, collateral damage limits, provision of aid, etc. most law of warfare treaties and agreements are based upon wars between nation states. There are rules about what constitutes an occupying force, what resistance forces can do vis a vis innocent civilians, and other things. But here we have a terrorist group that is also the defacto government authority even while the area is simultaneously considered as being occupied by Israel.

The entire subject of total war versus limited war is a complex one esp as it concerns innocent civilians, or if there is even such a thing in wartime. In the past, hundreds of thousands of "innocent civilians" were killed under the cover of collateral damage, tragic but necessary in order to destroy military targets. And under this broad subject is the debate as to what, if any responsibility or culpability does a civilian population bear for the wartime actions if its elected government.

Depending on what ones position is on these topics, one could take the position that civilains are innocent bystanders trapped in a war zone, to be protected to the maximum, even if that means having to devise less than optimal approaches to destroying the enemy forces and securing a military victory. Or, one could take the position that any civilian caught in a war zone is subject to becoming collateral damage as long as the enemy remains in the vicinity of them, as destroying the enemy is the only way to ultimately end the fighting and in that process also end the killing of civilians.

There can be some extreme positions people hold based on which way they choose to view these things. So ai am reluctant to constrain discussions about whether or not killing civilians is justified, whether aid should be provided by a combatant force, etc. i have my own personal opinion, but dont want to use that as the modding criteria. So, some posters may well post positions that others find offensive. Rebut those positions. There is lots of room for discussing the limits of modern warfare irt responsibilities to the civilian populations.

Now, due to my personal circumstances over the next few days, I have decided to grant an amnesty of sorts for several posts that I would normally ban people for. I am not going to go back through and identify individual posts and take action now. But many posters should take this as a final warning about stopping the personal attacks (even if you are attacked first) as well as stopping the line of discussion about Palestinians reproducing for strategic purposes or in any way bearing responsibility for their kids starving to death.

Some may feel it is unfair to let some of these offenses escape a ban. And in a way that's correct. But my circumstances are in terms of time available such that I think if everyone will just step back and cool down the rhetoric a bit, we can move forward with the same net effect.

If you are unhappy with this feel free to comment in the mod thread. But frankly dont expect me to debate the issue with you. I dont have the time for that now, and it wont change the decision anyway.

Please continue to use the report function if you see something you really feel needs a mods action.

Thanks.

calling the govt of palestine a terrorist group is some racist **** in its own right.

it makes the cease fire contingent on the hostages being released. so its not in fact immediate.

and saying that those teenagers blown up and the other group with the donkey blown up while the Israelis made jokes are somehow collateral damage is some diabolical ****. just absolutely grotesque on a level I cant comprehend.

just the most disgusting posting imaginable.

that's what many countries do, i understand you don't care about official definitions, but when 20+ countries consider an organization a terrorist one, you have at least to take that into account even if you disagree.

And btw if you don't consider the 10 7 attacks an act of terrorism, words have really no meaning for you.

terrorism is what is going on at Shifa right now and what has been going on since 10/8

Bowser

What do you think Arafat meant when he said the greatest weapon for the Palestinian cause is the womb?

Lol @ you banning discussing that Palestinian are doing exactly what the former head of the Plo told them to do

What a ****ing joke

Calling terror groups terrorist is racist!!

Brilliant

But saying the government of Israel is a genocidal regime isn't?

Careful with the womb cite, it wasn't Arafat rather Houari Boumedeinne (president of Algeria in the 60s-70s) , and there is a decent probability the literal quote was an artifact of western journalists (he was saying something related to high fertility and it's effects on the future, but more about large waves of migrations will happen if the global south doesn't become richer )

do you understand why they call people they are fighting wars against "Terrorists"?

you dont even know what racism means lmao. Please talk more

does calling a regime genocidal result in less rights for the people of that country?

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Yasser Arafat: "The womb of the woman will be our strongest weapon against the Zionists!"
GrayLawson, author
by GrayLawson
Community (This content is not subject to review by Daily Kos staff prior to publication.)
Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 10:54:51a EDT
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How many times did the late PLO leader, fist pumped into the air, bellow those words over a PA system to cheering Palestinian crowds? It became a daily mantra for Arafat, and it’s had staying power. It’s one of the reasons why there are 2 million Palestinians jam-packed into the tiny sliver of Gaza City today, instead of just, say, 350,000. It’s why there are about 2.75 million Palestinians in the West Bank instead of only a quarter of that number.

Does advocating for the deliberate overpopulation of own’s people sound like the hallmark of someone who sincerely cares about their welfare? Women as birthing war machines? Children crammed into tiny apartments alongside multiple generations of relatives? The unmanageable sheer crush of numbers of people as a “weapon” against the enemy?

Now, one could say, for a strategy, Arafat’s plan has kind of worked: as far as Israel is concerned, not only haven’t the Palestinians not “gone away”, but they’re not going away anytime soon — forever. The Palestinians gambled, rolled the dice, and after thinking the Arab nations would wipe the Jews out so that they, the Palestinians, could keep the whole region to themselves, they lost everything in 1948 (and in 1967). But, unlike most conquered people in human history, the Palestinian Arabs haven’t just “gone away”, they’ve deliberately multiplied. Israel, I think, has never mentally been able to come to grips with this. They thought the Palestinians would do what the Jews themselves did thousands of years ago, and just 99% completely leave the area. But the bulk of the “losers” have stuck around.

Remember, though, why the Arab nations agreed to try to kick the Jews out in the first place. It wasn’t really because they truly sympathized with the Palestinian Arabs at all, but because they didn’t want hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees flooding into their respective nations. The Arab kingdoms understood that the existence of an “infidel” Jewish state would unleash all sorts of chaos in the Middle East, enough to cause disruptions that would destroy their own precarious regimes. What’s the greatest thing ever to happen to the Islamist movement, barely out of its infancy in the mid 20th century? The state of Israel, partly for being there. The Iranian Revolution was just an Islamist pipedream for years until the mere presence of a bunch of Jews in the region helped catalyze the sequence of events leading to the Shah’s overthrow. What helped trigger the Lebanon civil war, which destroyed its own precarious government ? The influx of hundreds of thousands of angry Palestinian refugees. There probably would’ve been a civil war in Lebanon eventually, anyway, but it was the Palestinian refugees which made it happen much sooner.

That’s a digression from this diary, but the earlier point should be reiterated: Israel has a lot to answer for, but Palestinian overpopulation isn’t one of them. The Palestinians have deliberately made things many times worse for themselves, and it’s been a conscious decision.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/10...

How dare they.

Mets has been banned for two weeks for disregarding warning about Palestinian birth rates postings and blaming Palestinians for their condition by having kids.

If you dont agree with what a mod says not to post about, that's fine. You can always comment on the policy. But if you continue to post about that topic anyway, despite the warning, you're going to get banned.

that seems excessive tbh, is what he is saying against forum rules

2 weeks??? thats way too long

haha, ya you gotta cut mets some slack. I dont think he understood browsers post.

Ridiculous. When you just said you were too busy to ban people who actually said offensive things.

Tbh the extent of the content being banned wasn't obvious, wrt Palestinian fertility rate and it's effects.

Anyway you can keep stanning for Hamas but at least I can keep calling it a terrorist organization, could be worse.

Well, I guess Trolly will be happy. Probably the only one.