Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
not sure you are in the position to demand precision if you cant tell the difference between the 2 statements
Also fwiw I think even before ISIS said they did it they were the most likely to be responsible.
Ukraine or false flag are extremely unlikely.
not sure you are in the position to demand precision if you cant tell the difference between the 2 statements
Stellar logic to come to this conclusion I'm sure. I'm going to go with if ISIS is responsible then Victor thinks "the West" helped, and he is not joking, until there's some attempt at clarification.
decent chance the west helped. be precise.
well no, not quite. if it was ISIS, then there is a decent chance the West helped.
its not really a conspiracy, its been proven there are links.
no there isn't, there is no reason to think there was any.
and the links of ISIS with Russia always were much stronger than with the west (and with this I do not imply this was a false flag)
Also fwiw I think even before ISIS said they did it they were the most likely to be responsible.
Ukraine or false flag are extremely unlikely.
tbh everything is unlikely.
even for ISIS, given the level of security Russia had these days it's not obvious to believe they could have pulled this off. especially because ISIS is nothing nowadays, a non entity
no there isn't, there is no reason to think there was any.
and the links of ISIS with Russia always were much stronger than with the west (and with this I do not imply this was a false flag)
no reason at all
no reason at all
that the west is weak and doesn't actively neutralize every threat rather it lets them fester and grow doesn't mean we nurture them.
yes we should quickly kill everyone who is even remotely a threat and linked to any form of Islamic terror in any way, but I thought that wasn't your opinion
no they very likely cultivated him
tbh everything is unlikely.
even for ISIS, given the level of security Russia had these days it's not obvious to believe they could have pulled this off. especially because ISIS is nothing nowadays, a non entity
Well, they have been very active massacring Christians across Africa, and recently had some high profile attacks in Philippines (again a Christian church congregation) and Iran; on top of their regular activity in Iraq and Syria; so I am not sure "non entity" is the correct term.
At this point ISIS isn't some singular entity; but more a diverse, decentralized diaspora of Muslims that have a certain viewpoint of how Islam should exert itself politically; mostly through terror and attacking civilians.
Well, they have been very active massacring Christians across Africa, and recently had some high profile attacks in Philippines (again a Christian church congregation) and Iran; on top of their regular activity in Iraq and Syria; so I am not sure "non entity" is the correct term.
At this point ISIS isn't some singular entity; but more a diverse, decentralized diaspora of Muslims that have a certain viewpoint of how Islam should exert itself
Non entity wrt the first world. You can always massacre random people in third world countries with impunity unfortunately. That's something that doesn't require particular effort.
Like we don't even know the names of the entities killing a lot of people in Myanmar or south Sudan
tbh everything is unlikely.
even for ISIS, given the level of security Russia had these days it's not obvious to believe they could have pulled this off. especially because ISIS is nothing nowadays, a non entity
this is patently wrong. ISIS and AL Qaeda are very active in africa. Thats all I can say about that
well no, not quite. if it was ISIS, then there is a decent chance the West helped.
its not really a conspiracy, its been proven there are links.
So if the west help , why did the US already communicated with Russia about a possible attack 2 weeks ago ?
Why wouldn’t be more about Russia siding with Israel by rejecting the Gaza plan at the UN before the attack ?
So if the west help , why did the US already communicated with Russia about a possible attack 2 weeks ago ?
Why wouldn’t be more about Russia siding with Israel by rejecting the Gaza plan at the UN before the attack ?
Islamists have lots of grievances and do lots of terror attacks against civilians that dont involve Israel at all. For example, on top of the Russia attack, this all happened in the last week or so. This is news because it happened against Russia, but is a fairly common type of 'religious expression' among Islamists.
I think in the West we also underestimate how good a job our intelligence/security forces do in learning about and stopping these type of attacks before they happen. In the last week Russia claimed they had stopped another ISIS attack before this one targeting the Jewish community, and even with this one there was advanced warning.
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/south...
https://www.business-standard.com/world-...
https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/movies/suici...
So if the west help , why did the US already communicated with Russia about a possible attack 2 weeks ago ?
Why wouldn’t be more about Russia siding with Israel by rejecting the Gaza plan at the UN before the attack ?
what exactly did the USA communicate? we have no way of knowing and never will know.
Btw to be clear when/if enough elements will be in place to confirm ISIS was behind the attack, i fully support russian efforts to eradicate those terrorists domestically, and i think we should help with efforts to eradicate them in other countries as well.
And i suppose victor will be against any such effort, correct?
The amount of this stuff is incredible. These people are insane...
Biden is telling Ukraine to stop hitting Russian refineries with drones, otherwise gas price would go up.
Biden is flipflopping on both Israel and Ukraine now, it's almost like if Trump had already won the elections wrt international American commitment to help allies.
Ukraine is saying they were never asked to halt attacking refineries.
It's hard to tell if the story is legit at the moment.
City, type of venue, and within 2 weeks of the occurrence are specifics for this type of event.
hmm, wonder how the knew what was going to happen and then didnt give the Russians enough info to stop it. you are starting to convince me.
Well Putin calling bullshit on the Intel then not doing enough to stop it probably holds the majority of the blame.
He is in charge of Moscow and should be the one who gets the more in depth specifics after all.
