Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Macron just threatened to send troops to Ukraine. but ya tell me more about China who have actually tried to facilitate negotiations.
You still seem confused on who invaded who and who can end the war by withdrawing their invading troops anytime they choose.
France, and every country in the West would love peace. Russia does not want it. Macron personally flew to Moscow to attempt to stop the war from happening.
you still seem confused on which side tried to negotiate for years. the West got the war it wanted. maybe not the result it wanted as Russia looks stronger now. to the last Ukrainian! (and a few Frenchmen maybe?)
You still seem confused on the difference between negotiations and ultimatums.
The West did not get what it wanted, it wanted peace.
LOL at thinking Russia is stronger today... by what metric? Read something that isn't Kremlin propaganda.
ok then I dont know why you are whining. you should be celebrating like Lindsay Graham.
yes the material outcome of russia's invasion is that their economy has been cracked like an egg, which completely plays into the podcast-left's nato/usa caused these events to hurt russia conspiracy foolishness. i dont get why they arent leaning into it
I want peace for Ukraine and I also want peace for Russian soldiers and the mercenaries who are duped into performing suicide charges.
I am unsure what Graham said that you are referring to, but if he wants that as well then great.
Weren't you "whining" about Israel using thermobaric weapons?
to illustrate, this is russian interest rates over the relevant period. the changes have been necessary to avoid a total collapse of the value of the ruble
victor & co are hyper focused on the damage that raising interest rates by one quarter of one percent does to americans, and its unclear to me why they haven't figured out that the same is true for russians
the kicker is that it hasnt even worked - despite best efforts, the ruble has lost about a quarter of its value since the start of the invasion
you want peace? legit loled.
to illustrate, this is russian interest rates over the relevant period. the changes have been necessary to avoid a total collapse of the value of the ruble
victor & co are hyper focused on the damage that raising interest rates by one quarter of one percent does to americans, and its unclear to me why they haven't figured out that the same is true for russians
the kicker is that it hasnt even worked - despite best efforts, the ruble has lost
mission accomplished?
so pick one. either mission accomplished, or russia is stronger than ever. you may not have both
Plus capital controls, cannibalizing foreign and domestic businesses, and emptying their national wealth fund. Yet Victor is still in here saying their situation has improved.
This doesn't even go into their military and demographic issues.
Yes I want peace. This would only be surprising to someone with an extremely elementary understanding of this war and no understanding of my views on it.
It's a really good thing we've got some posters here to balance things out. We really need to hear from the side which believes it's OK to lie and demonize a population in order to invade and genocide them, then claim the country being invaded, and their allies, don't want peace because they refuse to submit to genocide.
Also nice to hear that it's whining to point out that Russia is building 3 ton bombs to kill the people Russia's defenders claim they aren't trying to kill. Good balance.
It's a really good thing we've got some posters here to balance things out. We really need to hear from the side which believes it's OK to lie and demonize a population in order to invade and genocide them, then claim the country being invaded, and their allies, don't want peace because they refuse to submit to genocide.
Also nice to hear that it's whining to point out that Russia is building 3 ton bombs to kill the people Russia's defenders
My question for you, like always, is why do you lie so much?
I dunno, lots of reports even from Western media say Russia is doing well. You tell me they aren't and sure that could be true i dunno. But my question is why arent you guys celebrating?
There are many reports saying Russia is doing better than what many people thought it would given the war.
There is no one claiming Russia would be doing worse today if there never was the war though, do you understand the difference?
If my enemy is wounded but not beaten, an ally is being crushed by the enemy, and some people we thought were allies are actually helping the enemy (India), why shpuld I celebrate, even if the enemy is worse off than he was 3 years ago?
And keep in mind we didn't want this war, what we want is a weak Russia that never even tries to step outside its own borders, who bends the knee to our empire and thanks us for letting it exist
I dunno, lots of reports even from Western media say Russia is doing well. You tell me they aren't and sure that could be true i dunno. But my question is why arent you guys celebrating?
putin's invasion has been awful for everyone, especially for unkrainians and russians obv, but also bad for everyone else. what would i be celebrating for
Not a single lie in there. These are your actions the past few hours.
Find me one person worth listening to who thinks Russia "looks stronger now" compared to the start of the war. They might "look stronger" than the country they attempted to conquer in 3 days and failed to do so, but the fact that we are 2 years into that war and it's a major development that at this exact moment Russia "looks stronger" than that country with 1/10 their gdp, and 1/5 their population should say a lot about the overall strength of Russia when it needs such qualifications for that statement.
Russia is not "doing well". You need to qualify that with some extreme criteria as well.
I don't care about how bad Russia is doing past how it weighs on how their peaceful neighbors are doing. Russia doing bad does not mean peace in Ukraine. Russia "doing well" by having an edge that could lead to them capturing another major city in the near future is awful as well (although it still doesnt mean they are "doing well" in a general dense). The fact that my country's congress is contributing this because they have been hijacked by far right Maga idiots who have their morals aligned with you is even worse.
This thread is like groundhog day. Whenever it happens I'll be arguing that Taiwanese don't deserve to be killed because of the White Terror and that Russia isn't peace loving because they are telling Taiwan to capitulate and just let the takeover happen.
why would Taiwanese be getting killed?
to illustrate, this is russian interest rates over the relevant period. the changes have been necessary to avoid a total collapse of the value of the ruble
victor & co are hyper focused on the damage that raising interest rates by one quarter of one percent does to americans, and its unclear to me why they haven't figured out that the same is true for russians
the kicker is that it hasnt even worked - despite best efforts, the ruble has lost
TBH i would use eur/rub as reference not usd/rub, because usd can get stronger for other reasons (as it did), ie a portion of what the ruble lost, it would have lost also without the war.
The currency channel isn't super relevant nor significant of a crisis, real gdp ex-military expenses is, it's clear the actual quality of life of russians decreased meaningfully given the war and would be a lot higher right now if russia had never invaded
there is no provokation, a dictatorship with a gdp a little higher than Spain gets told to bend the knee and be thankful we don't operate to change the awful regime, they start financing parties in europe, annexing peninsulas, sending unwanted immigrants in europe and several other acts of war.
We then sanction them a little their response is to invade the same country again to take more land.
Lol at "provoking", if russia simply never acted outside the border we wouldn't have any problem with it. Shithole dictatorships must be thankful we don't actively bring them down, there is no right to be an hegemonic power, and it is not a provocation to tell an enemy country to stay within it's ****ing borders.
The only group of countries who has a right to be hegemonic is us. Why? because we are stronger and more moral and better, objectively.
Not a single lie in there. These are your actions the past few hours.
Find me one person worth listening to who thinks Russia "looks stronger now" compared to the start of the war. They might "look stronger" than the country they attempted to conquer in 3 days and failed to do so, but the fact that we are 2 years into that war and it's a major development that at this exact moment Russia "looks stronger" than that country with 1/10 their gdp
Careful with the bold because, although smaller, there is a significant portion of left voting people who don't want to help ukraine either (not with weapons at least).
Both in the USA and in europe.
And it's not a "fringe" MAGA thing either
If you think it's only about MAGA you misunderstand the problem, when 17% of self-defined-democrats agree you can't call that a MAGA policy, or idea.
Aberrant "pacifism" can reach similar conclusions to nativism/anti-interventionism, that was always very clear in europe and now it is happening in the USA as well.
Keep in mind the above poll means less than half self defined democrats wanted to pass further help to ukraine ("current amount is enough").
