Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Nah. Of the majority of people that sympathize with Hamas over Israel, they did so on 10/8. Israel's occupation has animated the pro Hamas majority, but it hasn't really shaped very many peoples allegiances.
No, I think Israel has managed to alienate much of its previous goodwill and support, including, a bit surprisingly, in the US.
Not that I know what else the Israelis should have done, since they clearly had to do something, but holding off a bit and mobilising international support and targeting the Hamas leadership (diplomatically, financially and if necessary militarily, whether by air power or special forces) might have worked better and might have been seen as more proportionate than going totally Biblical and 'smiting' left, right and centre, never mind waging what looks like a starvation campaign against a captive civil population after blowing up everywhere they used to live.
at this point it should be obv to everyone that the only reason Israel lets any aid into Gaza is so that they can target the distributors. these are the people with the best ability to organize and network and support society.
looks like they ran out of Hamas and current workers and are now onto PA people.
you can always just go full nuclear.
Michigan GOP Congressman Suggests Using Nuclear Strikes Like ‘Hiroshima’ in Gaza
REP. TIM WALBERG (R-Mich.) said during a town hall meeting last week that the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza “should be like Nagasaki and Hiroshima,” in reference to the United States using atomic bombs on Japan, which happened at the end of World War II.
Walberg said: “Get it over quick.”
now people are saying Hamas arrested the other PA people. not sure what to make of it. maybe they were collaborating with Israel and then IDF accidentally bombed them?
It might. Who knows?
Or he could just come out and say I don't support Biden for re-election because.....
Being one of only two votes in your whole party against aid isn't much help.
Yeah, well, it's not up to you or me or one Senator from Vermont who disagrees with almost everyone else in the Senate. If you think Bernie coming out and saying he doesn't support Biden for re-election would help people in Gaza, you're thinking badly.
Yeah, well, it's not up to you or me or one Senator from Vermont who disagrees with almost everyone else in the Senate. If you think Bernie coming out and saying he doesn't support Biden for re-election would help people in Gaza, you're thinking badly.
It may or not help, who knows. But at least it would mean he isn't a phony hypocrite who says he's against the genocide in Gaza but still supports the person enabling that genocide.
It may or not help, who knows. But at least it would mean he isn't a phony hypocrite who says he's against the genocide in Gaza but still supports the person enabling that genocide.
Brian don't be silly, if trump did something you really dislike that wouldn't be enough for you to not vote him, because you know how bad Biden would be anyway and that's worse that the worst possible things trump could ever do according to your values.
for most people on the left the same is true reversed. they can dislike some action from Biden but the worst possible thing Biden could ever do is nothing compared to Trump according to their values so they correctly don't act against Biden too much no matter what he does.
it's rational and you know that.
good news, a hezbollah bigwig was compromised to a permanent end a few hours ago 😀
you can always just go full nuclear.
Michigan GOP Congressman Suggests Using Nuclear Strikes Like ‘Hiroshima’ in Gaza
REP. TIM WALBERG (R-Mich.) said during a town hall meeting last week that the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza “should be like Nagasaki and Hiroshima,” in reference to the United States using atomic bombs on Japan, which happened at the end of World War II.
Walberg said: “Get it over quick.”
Walberg is a well known moderate centrist
Israel could of course kill Nasrallah any time they wanted to. They know exactly where he lives. But that would lead to an escalation neither side wants right now.
Obviously leaders (like Sinwar and Bin Laden) can eventually cross a line where they are dead men if/when they ever come out of whatever cave they are hiding in; but generally there is a "gentleman's agreement," even among warring states not to go after each others political leadership. Trump assassinating the Iranian top general was actually seen as crossing a line that no other president would cross.
Israel could of course kill Nasrallah any time they wanted to. They know exactly where he lives. But that would lead to an escalation neither side wants right now.
Obviously leaders (like Sinwar and Bin Laden) can eventually cross a line where they are dead men if/when they ever come out of whatever cave they are hiding in; but generally there is a "gentleman's agreement," even among warring states not to go after each others political l
and it worked, Iran went full radio silence after that.
you can always just go full nuclear.
Michigan GOP Congressman Suggests Using Nuclear Strikes Like ‘Hiroshima’ in Gaza
REP. TIM WALBERG (R-Mich.) said during a town hall meeting last week that the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza “should be like Nagasaki and Hiroshima,” in reference to the United States using atomic bombs on Japan, which happened at the end of World War II.
Walberg said: “Get it over quick.”
Kind of hard to nuke Gaza without all kinds of spillover into Israel.
But if they detonated a 100kiloton nuke 300m or so under ground every 500 meters along the Gazan border with Egypt… they cojld literally destroy everything underground without having anything in the air.
A few hundred bunker busters to dig up a trench a few hundred meters wide all along the border would do the same thing
Israel could of course kill Nasrallah any time they wanted to. They know exactly where he lives. But that would lead to an escalation neither side wants right now.
Obviously leaders (like Sinwar and Bin Laden) can eventually cross a line where they are dead men if/when they ever come out of whatever cave they are hiding in; but generally there is a "gentleman's agreement," even among warring states not to go after each others political l
Israel murders the top leaders all the time. How do you think Nasrallah got the job?
No, I think Israel has managed to alienate much of its previous goodwill and support, including, a bit surprisingly, in the US.
Not that I know what else the Israelis should have done, since they clearly had to do something, but holding off a bit and mobilising international support and targeting the Hamas leadership (diplomatically, financially and if necessary militarily, whether by air power or special forces) might have worked better and
Well, Israel alienating good will and support from nations that still consider Hamas a terror group is a far cry from creating nations/people that actively support Hamas over Israel. There are plenty of those of course, but they weren't created by the response to 10/7; they had chose their allegiances a long time ago.
As far as what Israel "should" do, a conservative political commentator I follow named Richard Hanania (who himself is of Palestinian descent) suggested Israel should dramatically over-respond to 10/7 to make it clear that attacks into Israel should be treated as political suicide missions. He said because of intense propaganda and radicalization, too many people in Gaza felt actions such as 10/7 were a viable tactic to achieve a rational political end, and Israel should disabuse them of that notion.
Whether Hamas is destroyed or not, I think Israel has made it crystal clear that operations like 10/7 will result in destruction of Gaza, and this will temper the more rationale parts of Palestinian political society moving forward.
Even though the narrative is that Hezbollah "won" in 2006, as Israel achieved no obvious material objections, Israel still destroyed massive amount of Lebanon infrastructure in response to 2 soldiers bodies being kidnapped. And although you could argue this was an over-response, Hezbollah hasn't tried anything close to this since, indicating the over-reaction may have accomplished a more important goal of creating a psychological deterrent.
Brian don't be silly, if trump did something you really dislike that wouldn't be enough for you to not vote him, because you know how bad Biden would be anyway and that's worse that the worst possible things trump could ever do according to your values.
for most people on the left the same is true reversed. they can dislike some action from Biden but the worst possible thing Biden could ever do is nothing compared to Trump according to their
I'm not voting for Biden, but slamming Bernie on this when he's one of 2 dems to vote against weapons to Israel because he won't basically campaign against Biden is absurd.
Is Brian a Trump supporter? If so, lol.
Brian don't be silly, if trump did something you really dislike that wouldn't be enough for you to not vote him, because you know how bad Biden would be anyway and that's worse that the worst possible things trump could ever do according to your values.
for most people on the left the same is true reversed. they can dislike some action from Biden but the worst possible thing Biden could ever do is nothing compared to Trump according to their
Nah, sorry genocide is a line in the sand when it comes to supporting politicians in my book. ( I mean I can't believe I even have to spell it out.)
If Trump was enabling genocide like Biden is he wouldn't deserve support either.
However Trump's not in power, Biden is.
The propaganda in this thread almost makes it unreadable
Nah, sorry genocide is a line in the sand when it comes to supporting politicians in my book. ( I mean I can't believe I even have to spell it out.)
If Trump was enabling genocide like Biden is he wouldn't deserve support either.
However Trump's not in power, Biden is.
Trump sold weapons to KSA (Saudi Arabia), which tried to genocide Yemenites (some specific ethnic groups among them) and killed more civilians than Israel killed Palestinians.
And btw I am not criticizing the choice: anyone who sides with Iran deserves to be bombed into oblivion.
Trump also sided with Israel with no ifs and no buts in any struggle it had, with any Arab population. As every normal person would do.
Obviously you dont spend much time in the Covid, Jan 6th or Trump threads that you are asking that question. The avatar should definitely be a clue.
Anyways, I suspect he is more along the lines of the traditional right wing tiki torch antisemite that you scare monger about; as opposed to the ones marching in the streets of NY wearing keffiyeh chanting "From the river to the sea."
Trump sold weapons to KSA (Saudi Arabia), which tried to genocide Yemenites (some specific ethnic groups among them) and killed more civilians than Israel killed Palestinians.
And btw I am not criticizing the choice: anyone who sides with Iran deserves to be bombed into oblivion.
Trump also sided with Israel with no ifs and no buts in any struggle it had, with any Arab population. As every normal person would do.
I dont think Trump supports Israel at that level. Trump works with people that work with him. He quickly realized there is nothing to work with when it comes to Palestinian leadership. They just want to collect their aid from the UN and Qatar and do their Jihad, and aren't committed to anything productive. Whereas Israel has been willing to come to the table and work with Trump towards his interests.
In some alternate universe those positions were reversed, I dont think Trump has any ideological commitment to Israel.
I dont think Trump supports Israel at that level. Trump works with people that work with him. He quickly realized there is nothing to work with when it comes to Palestinian leadership. They just want to collect their aid from the UN and Qatar and do their Jihad, and aren't committed to anything productive. Whereas Israel has been willing to come to the table and work with Trump towards his interests.
In some alternate universe those po
It might very well be that trump reached the right conclusion for the wrong reasons, yes.
Yet he did, he governed 4 years always siding with any Israel preference.
If he did that for money/interest, I don't know. It might be the case. Still if you end up doing the right thing I won't be angry about it no matter the reasons why
