Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Agreed.
The Palestinians lost a bunch of wars against Israel, most before any of us were born. They have to move on. That is how the world works. They dont get to spend eternity (on all of our dimes) trying to erase the results of those wars. And the Israeli's alive today have no obligation to let them.
That is the part missing in all of this. The Palestinians are being held hostage by their own nihilistic, destructive worldview and attitude. And they have been rewarded for it for way too long.
The incentive structure has to change. Israel is doing its part by showing it will no longer reward the Palestinians for Jihad, but it is up to the rest of the world to also stop writing blank checks supporting this horrible behavior.
Time to move on, either in Palestinian Territories or somewhere else. No more jihad, demanding right of return, and destruction of Israel.
If anything it implies the opposite.
Tankies: the resistance had to murder innocent concert-goers, since Gaza is the Warsaw ghetto. They are heroes.
Sane people: life in Gaza was not like the Warsaw ghetto and far better before hamas conducted Oct 7.
Great post
Oct 7 was about river to sea. It wasn't about struggling to live
The Palestinians lost a bunch of wars against Israel, most before any of us were born. They have to move on. That is how the world works. They dont get to spend eternity (on all of our dimes) trying to erase the results of those wars. And the Israeli's alive today have no obligation to let them.
That is the part missing in all of this. The Palestinians are being held hostage by their own nihilistic, destructive worldview and attitude.
It's not the Palestinians who decided the 1967 war ended with 57 years of occupation. Israel won the war. Other war winners either withdraw or annex.
It's not the Palestinians who decided the 1967 war ended with 57 years of occupation. Israel won the war. Other war winners either withdraw or annex.
The war never ended for the Palestinians. They demand to be refugees on the border attacking Israel, planning to reconquer.
Much more recently than the Nakbar, Turkey invaded northern Cyprus, displaced thousands of ethnic Greeks and replaced them with ethnic Turks. The literal definition of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
The displaced persons filed their grievances with the UN, but they also moved on. They didn't demand to live in refugee camps on the borders of the lands they were kicked out of, constantly attacking Northern Cyprus, while planning on reconquering the land. And the rest of the world didn't provide perverse incentive structures to make this happen. And if they did do any of those things, Turkey would crush them immediately.
The perverse incentive structures the rest of the world is providing the Palestinians is the problem that can be and needs to be solved. And then everyone can move on and be better off, especially the Palestinians.
It's not the Palestinians who decided the 1967 war ended with 57 years of occupation. Israel won the war. Other war winners either withdraw or annex.
Israel didn't ask for a war in gaza
Egypt and 4 other countries attacked Israel in 1948 and warred with them
Egypt occupied Gaza for 20 years
Egypt withdraw when they lost and then the Armistice agreement of 49 made gaza part of Israel. But israel withdrew in 2005 and have not occupied gaza since so stop spreading disinformation
When hamas went into power both Israel and Egypt decided to overtly control the borders for their own countries' safety
Facts matter
But israel withdrew in 2005 and have not occupied gaza since so stop spreading disinformation
lol
I've gotten a headache from the last page
If you're government is full of terrorists that constantly shoot rockets at their neighbors, their neighbors must do what it can to protect its citizens. That's what the gaza blockade was. Period
The West Bank is a different issue. But Gaza has not been occupied since 2005. Period.
lol, US isn't 'letting' Israel bomb Palestine either, they kind of do what they want. No one is going after Hamas' leadership for the same reason the US doesn't seriously go after drug kingpins: because they have the juice and stopping them was never really the point.
I've gotten a headache from the last page
If you're government is full of terrorists that constantly shoot rockets at their neighbors, their neighbors must do what it can to protect its citizens. That's what the gaza blockade was. Period
The West Bank is a different issue. But Gaza has not been occupied since 2005. Period.
when you say who is constantly shooting rockets, you mean Israel right? bc they shoot a hell of a lot more than the Gazans.
anyway, every notable international organization disagrees and calls it an occupation. also, words and logic disagree with you.
lol, US isn't 'letting' Israel bomb Palestine either, they kind of do what they want. No one is going after Hamas' leadership for the same reason the US doesn't seriously go after drug kingpins: because they have the juice and stopping them was never really the point.
no they USA is going far beyond just "letting". they are an active participant in the bombing. this isnt Israel doing what they themselves want. they are doing what the USA wants too.
Prior to 10/7 the pervailing argument, that Israeli leaders such as Netanyahu also supported, was Hamas could be managed better with their political leadership residing in Qatar as opposed to Iran. This was aligned with the general sentiment among the Israeli right that Hamas should be supported over other options in Gaza, because their corruption and incompetence would work towards Israel's benefit.
In a post 10/7 world it remains to be decided whether this arrangement will be re-evaluated and changed. But no one is doing anything while the war is still hot, mainly because of the indigent antisemitism rampant in the Muslim world.
Israel didn't ask for a war in gaza
Egypt and 4 other countries attacked Israel in 1948 and warred with them
Egypt occupied Gaza for 20 years
Egypt withdraw when they lost and then the Armistice agreement of 49 made gaza part of Israel. But israel withdrew in 2005 and have not occupied gaza since so stop spreading disinformation
When hamas went into power both Israel and Egypt decided to overtly control the borders for their own countries' sa
Israel invaded in 1947. committed a genocide similar to the US trail of tears.
The other states fought back against the invader
Egypt may have occupied parts of gaza for 20 years, israel invaded and got it tho right?
facts matter
The perimeter is occupied. The borders are sealed. Gaza fishermen aren't allowed to go more than three miles out. No airport is allowed.
If the people of Gaza renounced Jihad, martyrdom, right of return, threw out all the terrorists and committed themselves to formation of a peaceful state; and Israel and Egypt kept their same policies it would absolutely be intolerable.
However, given the nihilistic obstinance of the Gaza populace, and their devotion to Jihad and martyrdom, Egypt and Israel's actions are completely rationale.
https://indi.ca/meetings-about-massacres...
Whatever they say in public, the 'Israelis' and Americans (same White Empire) are having meetings about massacres. They're having PowerPoints about poets. They're using cartography to mark cardiologists for execution, and wiping entire hospitals off the map entirely. They're keeping daily journals of all the journalists they kill, and having aides bring them lists of aid agencies to target. None of this is collateral. It's all pre-meditated and intentional. Beneath the pile of bodies is a pile of paperwork, and covering it all up are corrupt newspapers.
'Israel's' stated and executed policy is to just ****ing kill everybody, directly and then through disease and starvation. As former National Security Council head Giora Eiland said and as the current Finance Minister seconded: “The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not shy away from this, as difficult as that may be. After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer and reduce casualties among IDF soldiers. And no, this is not about cruelty for cruelty’s sake, since we don’t support the suffering of the other side as a goal but as a means.” The cruelty is not collateral. It's intentional. If you only noticed because they killed some white aid workers (and one Palestinian), you're an *******, but welcome.
Nothing should obfuscate that 'Israeli' policy is what's actually happening, not what the liars and their whitewashers are telling you. Some 'Israeli' publication ran an article about how 'Israel' is using AI to target militants and their families, which sounds dystopian in itself, but it's obfuscation. This implies that 'Israel' is targeting militants at all, and not hitting hospitals, civilians, aid workers, and journalists on purpose. As Norman Finkelstein says, “The nub of the problem is neither disciplinary nor technical. It’s Israel’s murder plan: to make Gaza unlivable and to force its people to decide—starve or leave.” The plan is what's being executed, and what they say is the plan (freeing hostages) is just part of the plan (to lie about i). 'Israel' has executed more hostages than it's freed, and meanwhile have taken thousands more Palestinians hostage and killed them in the tens of thousands. If you just open your eyes and plug your ears it's obvious.
'Israel' is laser focused on killing the Palestinian people entirely, on making Gaza unlivable, as they've openly said. And they're doing it. And this all had to be planned before the people were executed. They had to have meetings to discuss where the water supplies, food, sewage treatments, and electricity were, and then they had to have more meetings to bomb them. They had to coordinate where aid was being dropped by the Americans, and then plan to bomb the people that came to get it. They had get coordinates of aid agencies from the Americans (wink wink) in order to precisely bomb them (nod nod).
Somewhere, people are sitting in air-conditioned conference rooms, drinking bottled water, pulling up spreadsheets of how many people they expect to kill of starvation and thirst. Then some politician is telling them to get those numbers up. Somewhere people are having Zoom calls where they discuss foreign aid workers coming in, and how this messes with the starvation plan, so kill them. Then someone else is sitting at a computer screen, sending a bomb through the logo, then following the wounded to another car, bombing them again, and then following up to triple-tap them. All while some bureaucrat is standing over their shoulder nodding. Good job. Let me update spreadsheet. This is all pre-meditated, and someone else gets cc'ed on the media plan to cover it up in newsprint. They're pissing on your legs and calling it rain and, shockingly, some people still lap it up as ‘honest mistakes’.
They say once is a mistake, twice is a coincidence, and thrice is pre-meditated. But what do you call 3,000? What do you call n+1, every single day, for six months of reigning death? That's a plan, executed ruthlessly. These are all executions. 'Israel' does not give a ****, and America does not withhold anything. What can genocide grandpa say to their genocidal offspring? 'Israel' said Gaza was populated by 'human animals' and they'd 'reduce it to rubble' and they're 'acting accordingly'. And that's precisely what they're doing. They're planning, executing, and everything else is just excuses with expiration dates. 'Israel' has discovered that, like break-ups, the best way to get over one cycle of bad press is to do something even more horrible. One bombed hospital is a tragedy, but bombing every hospital becomes a statistic. It doesn't even get covered. The best cover-up way to cover up some bodies is more bodies. Somehow if the corpses are a mountain it becomes a molehill.
What gets me is all the white-collar workers this takes. From the 'Israeli' bureaucrats making lists of doctors and intellectuals to murder, to the soldiers pushing the buttons to obliterate them. From the paper-pushers marking out which homes to demolish, and the software-developer reservists going out and taking selfies while doing it. Then, on the American side, the people releasing the 2,000 pound bombs to drop on starving 20 pound children. Somebody has to sign all that paperwork, somebody has to load the bombs, and then maybe some celebrity comes and signs the bombs themselves. Then the PR flacks have to have meetings to coordinate their lies, and western 'journalists' have to craft sentences without subjects or objects to make all the active violence disappear in the passive voice. It's a massive coordination job, all this carnage.
its hard for me to comprehend that people dont see it exactly like this
Israel didn't ask for a war in gaza
Egypt and 4 other countries attacked Israel in 1948 and warred with them
Egypt occupied Gaza for 20 years
Egypt withdraw when they lost and then the Armistice agreement of 49 made gaza part of Israel. But israel withdrew in 2005 and have not occupied gaza since so stop spreading disinformation
When hamas went into power both Israel and Egypt decided to overtly control the borders for their own countries' sa
Regardless of what any of the states around there are doing, the Palestinians have been stateless or at least less than really sovereign for 57 years. Facts matter. Neither Egypt, Jordan or Lebanon have had anything to do with the occupied territories for a long time. Israel is one of like two countries in the world with anything like this happening (the other is Morocco). Countries that win wars rarely, but at the worst expel people and annex, they usually withdraw, and sometimes they annex and the people in the annexed territory just become citizens of the annexers. Israel cannot blame Egypt forever.
And as for your comment about disinformation, well you should **** off with that. You know that Gaza hasn't been allowed to be independent regardless of whether or not there are settlements.
