Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Indeed but the measures needed were defensive not invading russia
Israel isn't an identical situation but attack is rarely if ever the best means of defense when a politcal solution will still be required. Even if israel 'wins' - then what?
At some point we will do to Iran what we did to Iraq (or the regime collapses internally and they normalize). Israel needs to buy as many years as possible until the USA has a leader willing to invade Iran
none of this is necessary or productive
you just have to ensure that iran's leadership understand that one of the consequences of an existential threat to israel is an existential threat to iran and its proxies. for bonus points, be as vague as possible as to what you consider to be an existential threat
Indeed but the measures needed were defensive not invading russia
Israel isn't an identical situation but attack is rarely if ever the best means of defense when a politcal solution will still be required. Even if israel 'wins' - then what?
In the case of Northern Israel, people get to go HOME. That's a pretty big "then what". Reducing Hezbollah to rubble and getting your people home and your economy going again is a big deal. Israel's agricultural industry is in shambles right now with whats happening up north.
I think the Hezbollah piece is the one Israel is most intent on now (like this very moment). Again if you've never been up North and on the other side of the West Bank, you can't picture it. In some spots you're looking into someone else's home on the other side. In some spots the antitank missiles are fired from so close it's hard to conceive. Mortar fire easily reaches you. Hezbollah just sitting on that border launching strikes is something that has to be over. And Israel today is in a decent position to make that happen. I think Iran just provided them the political cover to do it. With the North already evacuated and the army this polished (including the reserves), I can't see how Israel doesn't do this. It would be political considerations/dealings I'm totally unaware of (which is distinctly possible maybe even probable). At face value, it makes no sense for Israel not to take this opportunity.
At some point we will do to Iran what we did to Iraq (or the regime collapses internally and they normalize). Israel needs to buy as many years as possible until the USA has a leader willing to invade Iran
or keep looking for political opportunities and then grab them as hard as possible.
re the usa I think a key unknown (to me anyway) is what they are thinking about 'stopping a nuclear Iran'. I fear the usa is pretty close to being willing to invadea nd that Iran fears this.
iran: our policy is the elimination of the zionist regime and the forced deportation and/or liquidation of all jews from the region in order to ensure justice and freedom throughout the world
chezlaw: ..can i interest you in the liquidation of 50% of all jews from the region?
i woke up today nervous, as the last thing i'd seen before going to bed was reports of cruise missiles being fired from iran. it was a relief to wake up and see that iran's attack was flaccid
its days like this where you are reminded of things you take for granted. iran's leaders have not been cowed by a few hundred thousand jewish teenagers running around the desert with uzis, they have instead been cowed by the greatest nation in the histo
Spot on.
Of course the second Holocaust being avoided is genocide vic’s worst nightmare.
Meanwhile it's now the 3rd straight day of terrorist pogroms in the West Bank. (BGP still hasn't condemned them btw).
More reports of murder from air drops via drowning or impact.
And Israel fired on a bunch of women and children returning to their homes. Or really "homes" bc it's all just rubble.
Thats the stuff that makes me rage corpus. Unfortunately I am not like you and BOIDs who revel in genociding oppressed people.
The anti-semetic, genocidal, pathological liar wants BGP to condemn something.
Fascinating…
In the case of Northern Israel, people get to go HOME. That's a pretty big "then what". Reducing Hezbollah to rubble and getting your people home and your economy going again is a big deal. Israel's agricultural industry is in shambles right now with whats happening up north.
I think the Hezbollah piece is the one Israel is most intent on now (like this very moment). Again if you've never been up North and on the other side of the West Bank,
Then what for how long?
Unless there's some serious plan for aftwerwards then nothing is over
iran: our policy is the elimination of the zionist regime and the forced deportation and/or liquidation of all jews from the region in order to ensure justice and freedom throughout the world
chezlaw: ..can i interest you in the liquidation of 50% of all jews from the region?
not a fan of that at all but I appreciate your high quality sillyness in the face of such a serious situation
i'm not saying you are a fan of that position, i'm illustrating the impossibility of finding a political solution when the starting point of your negotiating partner is the extirpation of you and yours
i'm not saying you are a fan of that position, i'm illustrating the impossibility of finding a political solution when the starting point of your negotiating partner is the extirpation of you and yours
Sometimes it's wise to ignore negotiating positions. They are very rarely fixed or even real.
I dont deny the difficulty but the inability to come up with good plans is no justification for really stupid plans.
iran: our policy is the elimination of the zionist regime and the forced deportation and/or liquidation of all jews from the region in order to ensure justice and freedom throughout the world
chezlaw: ..can i interest you in the liquidation of 50% of all jews from the region?
Look at Saudi Arabia. In the early 2000s they supplied most of Hamas' funding. I think their official position was the complete elimination of Israel until after Camp David.
none of this is necessary or productive
you just have to ensure that iran's leadership understand that one of the consequences of an existential threat to israel is an existential threat to iran and its proxies. for bonus points, be as vague as possible as to what you consider to be an existential threat
Although the Iranians claim to be satisfied with their demonstration (well, they would), they will have noted that Allied aircraft shot down almost all their hundreds of drones and missiles and Israeli systems accounted for almost all the rest. Mainly they will have noted Western (and Jordanian) support for Israel when the chips are down and the enemy is Iran.
All they want is time.
Time moves nations to better tech. Tech wins wars.
If you look at WW2, time and innovation was one of the key deciding factors. A few years in this direction or that, and it's the other nation getting nukes first.
Israel needs more time. With more time it's maybe them who end up with bunker busting tech we've never seen before.
I've noticed before how poor your understanding of some events is. You write this as if WW2 and the development of the atom bomb in the USA were separate and unconnected events that just happened to occur at the same time.
Meanwhile it's now the 3rd straight day of terrorist pogroms in the West Bank. (BGP still hasn't condemned them btw).
More reports of murder from air drops via drowning or impact.
And Israel fired on a bunch of women and children returning to their homes. Or really "homes" bc it's all just rubble.
Thats the stuff that makes me rage corpus. Unfortunately I am not like you and BOIDs who revel in genociding oppressed people.
Yeah everyone who disagrees with you is a genocide endorsing monster, which adequately highlights how you're simply incapable of having a good faith discussion.
Haven't been following any of this for weeks but figured that I couldn't miss the Saturday night Bomb-a-Thon. It looks like a huge wifi on Iran's part, am I missing something? If it is I think Israel's response should be every version of 'MISSED ME! LOL AT YOU!' and let it stop here.
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Damn the internet won't let me fix 'wifi' to 'wifi.'
Jeez, try 'wiff.'
Iran's capabilities have been fluffed up to a pretty redic degree. It's the media's job to portray it as Tyson V Holyfield for their own bottom line things just aren't as they appear.
Iran's capabilities have been fluffed up to a pretty redic degree. It's the media's job to portray it as Tyson V Holyfield for their own bottom line things just aren't as they appear.
And it's not just the media. Iran is a somewhat less clear example, but if you look at Hamas you get the most ardent people who support Israel's actions saying Hamas is strong and threatening because that justifies the level of force and need to eradicate them and on the other side some people feel they are supporting the Resistance when they talk about Hamas' strength.
It's just standard to describe an enemy as both weak and strong and your own side as threatened while being resolute and ultimately headed towards victory.
Sometimes it's wise to ignore negotiating positions. They are very rarely fixed or even real.
I dont deny the difficulty but the inability to come up with good plans is no justification for really stupid plans.
Can we factor in general human incompetence from all participants?
Now we wait until nightfall. Then Sir Lancelot, Sir Galahad and I leap out of the rabbit!
Yeah everyone who disagrees with you is a genocide endorsing monster, which adequately highlights how you're simply incapable of having a good faith discussion.
well yes obv. I dont support genocide. anyone who disagrees ofc supports genocide. you can use a different word than genocide, war crimes, atrocities, colonialism, mass murder, ethnocide, whatever. but its really clear what Israel is doing. the holocaust is not a good excuse to allow it.
