Israel/Palestine thread

I'm a little uncomfortable that you treat unverified conspiracy theory tweets as gospel

not all of it. you dont see me posting **** from Jackson Hinkle or those clowns.

twitter is the only way for the legitimate journalists who are being murdered every day to document the ongoing holocaust.

then there should be some evidence for it. otherwise its just a guess and not very worthwhile.

the Palestinians didnt drive anyone out. why do they deserve to get genocided bc Algeria and Germany did bad things?

I mean I saw a woman that was bleeding from her rear and was put onto the back of a motorcycle

I really don't think it's hard to say. The attack was carried out by Hamas and associated jihadis. If the IDF mis-hit some of their own people in response, that's a concern. But this was a Hamas terrorist murder spree of revolting character. Whether they thought the seizure of hostages would protect them from massive retaliation, or whether they actually wanted to provoke massive retaliation (because terrorists tend to be motivated by destructive self-pity), God knows.

Y’all need to blame Hamas and the IDF. Those are the bad actors

What "holocaust" do you think I'm denying?

The nakba which happened after the IDF forces overthrew British and forces and began occupying Palestine

You said the Nabka wasn't ethnic cleansing. Did you seriously forget what you posted today?

by Dunyain P

--As opposed to this?

This is one of a number of reasons why Zionism was never a good idea. But Zionists like Begin (who could have chosen to fight the Nazis, but instead chose to fight the British on Hitler's side and was considered no better than a Nazi by Einstein) saw it as a plus, because it would bring more Jews to bolster their project and displace the local Arabs.

Guys what you call the Nabka is the outcome of losing the war the Arabs started. If the Arabs win the war of independence, there's no "Nakba".

That's also not a Holocaust. That's just losing a war. The Brits voluntarily left because they knew full well this region was "irreconcilable". Once they left, both sides had it out, as they'd been doing for 60+ years before and even longer before that (the very reason the Brits bailed).

We use a fancy word to mark getting beat. What word would we have used if the Jews had lost? Probably a different word. To my knowledge the Germans didn't create a word for when the allies beat them. They just lost.

For YEARS before independence, the Arabs ****ed around. We can go over the sequence from the 1880's. Eventually, they found out. If they'd fought better, no Nakba. Let us agree.

What we can agree on, is that Israel/the Jews a never are allowed to win a war

False

No, there was no IDF at the time, and the Zionist terrorists didn't overthrow the British, who had already announced in the 1938 White Paper that they were resigning the Mandate and leaving Palestine in 1948, and the UN Partition Plan of 1947 assigned pretty much what is now Israel to the Zionists. This did result in some extremely nasty ethnic cleansing, notably at Deir Yassin but basically all over the place (and a lot of Arabs just fled in terror), that being the Nakba.

Stop denying the Nakba happened or try to minimize it. Yes the Israelis did offer Arabs to stay eventually but they sure didn’t make it look like they wanted the Arabs to take the offer.

The Irony is the whole Nakba thing only got invented (in the present form) in the 80's to my understanding. The Palestinians didn't touch this in the years following the defeat of the Arab coalition, because it was just such an obvious act of aggression + loss of the war. With enough time passing they went to the "woe is me" route after having very clearly been on the much bigger coalition.

The people who lament the "Nakba" gloss over this ironic fact that if the Jews don't win that war, they get eliminated/liquidated for the second time in 3 years no less. When you're fighting for your survival, AGAIN, and you have no place else to go, you put up a pretty good fight.

Thank god they did, and that the worst I have to do is argue with a few Nakbastans in here as a result.

What you mistake with me is that I deny they lost. I KNOW they did. I know what it cost them.

What the other side is ignoring is why the battle happened at all. And I know THAT history very very well. Again, 17%. The Arabs passed on a split where the Jews would get 17%. The real "Nakba" that had always been brewing, and all the facts align here, is that 0% Jews was the number the region wanted. Because I understand this 60 year sequence (and older still), I remain less fixated on the portion everyone is obessiessng with here.

The Nakba never had to happen because the Arabs easily could have accepted Jewish integration. They never once did, because they took after the Nazis (which is a matter of record now).

There are 10x more displaced in Sudan this very moment. You're never gonna Nakba it for the next 75 years. Ask why.

None of that justifies or changes the fact that it was an ethnic cleansing.

you dont know it well. you had never heard of Ilan Pappe. do you even know Benny Morris, who as Bill Haywood mentioned, is a devoted Zionist that said they should have just finished the job in 1948? both of them looked into the Israel records when they got unsealed along with other Israeli historians. they all came to the same conclusion.

it was a premeditated and meticulously planned and executed event. they even sent infiltrators into every village to take advantage of the Palestinian hospitality so they could create an inventory of all of the wealth in the towns and get a list of who to murder after they took over.

I mean we managed to integrate the original Nazis into the western world just fine. I think history shows some of the tactics the Israelis used were probably excessive.

You could argue they couldn’t take the risk at the time and I am open to that but you still have to acknowledge Nakhba was an original sin that underlines a lot of Palestinian grievance.

"The Haganah, the largest of the Jewish underground militias, which was under the control of the officially recognised Jewish leadership of Palestine, remained cooperative with the British. But in 1944 the Irgun, an offshoot of the Haganah, launched a rebellion against British rule, thus joining Lehi, which had been active against the authorities throughout the war. Both were small, dissident militias of the right-wing Revisionist movement. They attacked police and government targets in response to British immigration restrictions.

The armed conflict escalated during the final phase of World War II, when the Irgun declared a revolt in February 1944, ending the hiatus in operations it had begun in 1940.[5] Starting from the assassination of Baron Moyne by Lehi in 1944, the Haganah actively opposed the Irgun and Lehi, in a period of inter-Jewish fighting known as the Hunting Season, effectively halting the insurrection. However, in autumn 1945, following the end of World War II in both Europe (April–May 1945) and Asia (September 1945), when it became clear that the British would not permit significant Jewish immigration and had no intention of immediately establishing a Jewish state, the Haganah began a period of co-operation with the other two underground organisations. They jointly formed the Jewish Resistance Movement.[6] The Haganah refrained from direct confrontation with British forces, and concentrated its efforts on attacking British immigration control, while Irgun and Lehi attacked military and police targets.[6] The Resistance Movement dissolved amidst recriminations in July 1946, following the King David Hotel bombing. The Irgun and Lehi started acting independently, while the main underground militia, Haganah, continued acting mainly in supporting Jewish immigration.[6] The Haganah again briefly worked to suppress Irgun and Lehi operations, due to the presence of a United Nations investigative committee in Palestine. After the UN Partition Plan resolution was passed on 29 November 1947, the civil war between Palestinian Jews and Arabs eclipsed the previous tensions of both with the British. However, British and Zionist forces continued to clash throughout the period of the civil war up to the termination of the British Mandate for Palestine and the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948."

They would manufacture grievance. F*ck 'em. Next

Rafiki, what about the 300k Palestinians expelled before the May 15, 1948 war? That's not from losing a war. It was ethnic cleansing. Have you even heard of Plan Dalet?

You must have heard of Deir Yassin. That was in April, 1948, before the Arab Legion invasion.

Why did I think I was dealing with a fact-based person?

ya I mean this guy was writing books about it in the 50s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walid_Khal...

It’s almost impossible to untangle the refugees pre war.l from the war. The Arabs knew war was coming and they really had no way of knowing how things were going to turn out for them.