The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
Ok man, yellow vest riots in France alone were a lot worse than the totality of rightwing violence in western democratic history since 1946.
Years of cities burning for months, what comes close to that?
Anecdotes? There are no rightwing mass crowd riots basically ever since 1946!!!
The Gilets Jaunes seem to have been a combination of far-right and far-left (who are not after all that different -- it's called 'red-brown crossover'). About a third, when polled, were Le Pen voters and a bit over a quarter were Melenchon voters.
more dishonest strawmen attacks and character assassinations
now you're saying he doesn't agree with you because he's an idiot but you choose the cowards way to say it
and again, offer nothing, no contribution, no driving forward and progressing of discussion
you really are a terrible person
more dishonest strawmen attacks and character assassinations
now you're saying he doesn't agree with you because he's an idiot but you choose the cowards way to say it
and again, offer nothing, no contribution, no driving forward and progressing of discussion
you really are a terrible person
Lol. This is getting comical. You get precisely zero credibility to call me a terrible person or that I'm doing "character assassinations" when you literally accused me of having a "sham marriage". Look in the mirror.
The most amusing part is that ES2's sad little schtick of "it is false to say that men can give birth" is itself an obvious "dishonest strawmen attack". Obviously the context is that trans men CAN give birth. So maybe go yell at the people making the stupid points, and leave your "character assassination" attempt on me for your rants on a long walk in the forrest away from your computer.
men can't give birth though, trans men can perhaps, but they are also biologically women, so pregnant women is fine - you know this, i know this, es2 knows this - if you weren't an awful person and felt like this warranted discussion then you could have actually discussed those issues, but you instead don't do that at all as usual and instead use it as a convenient opportunity to lay down insults without actually saying them directly so you can tell yourself you're a nice guy and not an utter pos
and for someone who got so upset because i repeated your own words once, you're really an odd duck being a broken record repeating that your marriage is a sham for what the dozenth time this week? perhaps you're hoping she'll read the thread?
and i love the outrage, you were fine with marriage being on topic when it was used to elevate you and put down anyone else who wasn't married, but now that the tables are turned you're suddenly against it and can't let it go - shocking behavior from someone who sits by posting from burner accounts
but again, you're still being a total dickwad in the thread to everyone, but oddly think this is about your marriage, my perceived attack upon it by repeating your own words, and not that you just frankly suck as a person and has nothing to do with your marital status
men can't give birth though, trans men can perhaps, but they are also biologically women, so pregnant women is fine - you know this, i know this, es2 knows this - but you still use it as a convenient opportunity to lay down insults without actually saying them directly so you can tell yourself you're a nice guy and not an utter pos as you are
Lol. You just can't turn it off, can you? But yes, obviously ES2 and everyone else is aware that trans men can give birth, hence why the faux "it is false that men can give birth" in the context of talking about trans men is such a ridiculously stupid thing to say and deserves every bit of sarcastic responses to it that it gets.
and for someone who got upset for repeating your own words once, you're really an odd duck being a broken record repeating that your marriage is a sham for what the dozenth time this week?
...
oddly think this is about your marriage, my perceived attack upon it by repeating your own words
Lol wat. Are you trying to pass it off that your disgusting personal insult about my alleged "sham marriage" was based on something *I* said? Lol **** no buddy. That was a pure fabrication of yours. I have no idea why in your long insult tirade against me you decide to go so personal, its sad, its pathetic, its embarrassing, but you did it. Only you. Nobody else. So you have lost the right to keep telling me I'm a terrible/bad/awful/pos/etc person given your own actions.
uke, to put this in a way you would understand it
imagine if you will that there's a debate at your university over the amount of classroom and office hours required for professors - this is obviously quite a divisive topic as the entire purpose of the university is for education, but yet many of them are highly in demand for research, speaking at conferences, sitting on boards, doing a book tour to promote their most recent work
let's say that you were one of the primary advocates of professors staying in the classroom and focusing on teaching and you wrote a number of op-eds in the school paper supporting this position
and then let's say another professor, let's call him professor x (after all, most of his work happens outside the classroom) took on the position that for some, they could better serve the university through their work outside the classroom and they too wrote a bunch of op-eds in the school paper to support this position
and then, there's an anonymously written op-ed in the paper that says that professor uke has the correct position, professors should stay at the school with and teach and be surrounded by their wives and children - just look at that degenerate bachelor professor x who travels around being all childless, what a pathetic loser he is for not being a family man
whether or not you wrote that new op-ed is besides the point, as it specifically white knights your cause, and does so not by bringing facts to the table but instead makes an absurd argument that you are a better person because you are married and professor x, despite that he's been shown to have saved humanity in several films, is an utter degenerate scumbag simply because he's not married
unless you write your own op-ed condemning that other one, then that's an implied approval of the message, so at that point, it may as well have been written by you
you have never written your own condemnation, you were perfectly fine with all of it
it only became an issue for you, when professor x took some of your older essays about marriage to the copy machine, only then was marriage, and marital status suddenly a no fly zone
it only became an issue for you, when professor x took some of your older essays about marriage to the copy machine, only then was marriage, and marital status suddenly a no fly zone
Lol. Taking Trolly's usual advise of skipping the ramble to get to the last line that justifies skipping it we find the weaselly attempt - once again - to justify your disgusting personal insult that I have a "sham marriage" was based on anything I said, that it was "copied" from me.
No.
You made that insult up from thin air. It was gross. It was personal. It was uncalled for. It was far far far over the line. The only thing it wasn't was surprising, since for some unknown reason you've been on some tirade to call me every insult you can seemingly think of, regardless of whether it is below the belt or not.
Lol. You just can't turn it off, can you? But yes, obviously ES2 and everyone else is aware that trans men can give birth, hence why the faux "it is false that men can give birth" in the context of talking about trans men is such a ridiculously stupid thing to say and deserves every bit of sarcastic responses to it that it gets.
Lol wat. Are you trying to pass it off that your disgusting personal insult about my alleged "sham marriage" was
If they can give birth they aren't men.
They are women who think of themselves as men.
Still women
omg...
look this is obviously a little close to home for you so i intentionally didn't want to get into it all over again
but since you are so big on airing this out in public again, perhaps in a gambit to get thread wiped yet again
you said that, 100% said all of that, you may not have specifically used the word sham but you absolutely said that "i'd like to date trans women but I'm married to my childhood sweetheart and we have children and thus can't... but if something were to happen to her than I'd be doing that"
you have not denied that at all, you oddly agreed with with it but pretended like you never said it before and I somehow just magically guessed it correctly (that's the weirdest part about all of this - you're treating this like I'm some famed mentalist)
you may not have said sham, idk if i even used that myself since it all got nuked, but you're the only one using it now
but i think your description is quite apt
let's use professor x again shall we
professor x rolls into a bar and loudly tells everyone in the bar that he's only been with one person, that person he met while he was very young, that they have several children that he loves with all his heart, and that once he became an adult he's since realized he's into dudes and trans and not women and if something were to happen to his wife that's who he'd be with instead
now, what phrase do you think other patrons of the bar would use to describe this man's marriage using only one word?
and again, i can't emphasize enough, you made your bed by happily condoning and going along with marital status being the foundation of a personal attack against others and specifically used to elevate you - none of this would have ever in a million years been broached nor mentioned had you simply responded to that attack with "that's uncalled for" it only became so once it was no longer in your favor and you repeatedly bash its use now despite that nobody is saying it so you clearly do feel strongly about marriage being over the line, but only once it was not in your favor, you were fine with it before
because... you're not a good person
you said that, 100% said all of that, you may not have specifically used the word sham but you absolutely said that "i'd like to date trans women but I'm married to my childhood sweetheart and we have children and thus can't... but if something were to happen to her than I'd be doing that"
you have not denied that at all
Lol no, I did not say that. I already denied saying it lol. I'll account permaban vs account permaban bet you on it. I have said that I'm not completely straight, and am not opposed to sleeping with trans women (or men or ???), but that doesn't in a million ****ing years imply I'm living a "sham marriage". Presumably most people would sleep with other people after their marriage ended, that doesn't say anything at all about the marriage being a sham! Wtf! What a sick perversion to jump to that.
unless you write your own op-ed condemning that other one, then that's an implied approval of the message, so at that point, it may as well have been written by you
Hold on hold on, all this nonsense from you is because I uh, checks notes, apparently ignored some irrelevant 15 post count noobie who said something stupid? No buddy, you don't get to turn around make and make deeply personal insults about me and my marriage because I didn't respond to somebody else.
Ok. Well if you don't want to take responsibility for your fabricated personal insult and instead want to make up false quotes to try and pretend like it is within a country mile of something I've said, well that's on you. I'd just recommend stopping your tirade of calling me bad/awful/pos/etc given how poorly you've acted here.
One last thought: the whole thing also has a perhaps unintential tinge of transphobia to it. Never in a million years would anyone think that someone is in a sham marriage if they are completely straight and would sleep with other women after their marriage. But the mere suggestion of someone being open to sleeping with LGBT, and suddenly "sham marriage" is on the table by rickroll. That's......weird. Right?
maybe stop being a terrible person and people will stop asking you to stop being a terrible person?
have you considered that?
just lay off the insults and smarm
focus on content, if you see something that warrants discussion then discuss it and don't include all your strawmen, slander, and character assassination that you always include
how about that?
jfc man it's that simple, just stop being a total pos and people will stop saying "hey don't be a total pos"
there are many people who post in this thread, you are the only one i take major issue with, this isn't about politics whatsoever, this is strictly about you and your personal conduct
I tried for the USA with something like 900+ big crowd riots from the left since 1946 vs Jan 6.
We basically never have 5k+ neonazis or similar wreaking havoc in cities, like ever.
We had hundreds of students, unions, race riots in the west, each and every one of them predicated on leftist values.
Again aside jan6 what's the last urban guerrilla scenario where the crowd was blatantly rightwing you remember? There were some left v right street
If you were going to try to really measure this, you'd also try to control for who is in power.
There isn't much reason for whites, as a group, or rich people etc. to riot. It usually works out that, by definition, the right are the wealthy and powerful and can often use the state for their violence. One exception might be communist countries.
You're setting things up so that, if the rich and powerful are drafting people to force them fight in a war of aggression they don't believe in, and some commoners resist and it occasionally gets out of hand, only one side is violent. As if the reason Senators and CEOs don't throw bricks through windows is the restraint of their philosophy.
It's also wrong to think of every such group as "the left," and to assume from the outset that this classification drives the violence.
1) terrible person
2) insults
3) not focusing on content
4) slander
5) character assassination
6) POS
Doesn't falsely accusing someone of being in a sham marriage check every one of those boxes? Look in the mirror.
it was not a false accusation, you literally said that, or we can go with your magic bullet theory that i somehow guessed correctly
I'm happy to move on but you keep bringing this back up
it was not a false accusation, you literally said that, or we can go with your magic bullet theory that i somehow guessed correctly
I'm happy to move on but you keep bringing this back up
No, I said nothing remotely close or possibly interpretable as "sham marriage". Not being completely straight is not the same thing as a "sham marriage". The apparently declined account permaban vs account permaban bet is still open.
And I want to remind you, that I have only brought this up in response to your continual and relentless tirade of insults at me. It beautifully captures the hypocrisy of your insult tirades. Don't want your disgusting fabricated personal attack brought up? Simple solution: stop your insult tirades.
Fwiw Uke I don't think you do yourself any service when you call it a "disgusting attack".
It's actually sort of hilarious.
Fwiw Uke I don't think you do yourself any service when you call it a "disgusting attack".
It's actually sort of hilarious.
Sure. Let me put it this way. I’m pretty open about IRL self on this forum. I talk about my kids, job, wife, sexuality, etc. I get insulted all the time by lots of people, and about the job specifically a lot, and I don’t really mind any of it. It’s an Internet forum, that’s par for the course. But somehow trying to combine using my sexuality and wife as a basis for an attack is just a level of low blow that strikes me as quite a bit different from all his normal “you’re a terrible person” type insults. So I think it’s fair to extract the pound of flesh for crossing that line.
Isn't not completely straight the same as almost pregnant?
