Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
I’m not sure you understand the timeline of what was happening in 1940 and why remaining out of Europe’s conflict was still a very popular sentiment so recently after WWI.
But again, you and Luciom have come up with 2 examples- opposing nuclear energy and opposing war. What, no racist movements? No regressive fascist student strikes? Then maybe someone get Mets a glass of water and a ****ing ativan so he can shut the **** up already about t
I definitely understand what was happening in 1940. And like I said, the students far more often than not have been on the right side of history.
I haven't been to the Columbia campus since the protests started. For that matter, I haven't been on the campus for years. There are gates that you have to go through to enter the main area of campus, but I have never seen them closed. Are they closed now or maybe accessible only with a university ID?
We all agree jackhi was an antisemite
All he did was post torah jews protesting Israel as an argument that most jews oppose Israel
There was an OpEd in the NYT yesterday written by a Columbia professor. Make of it what you will.
lol, the student protestors have absolutely no control over who gets through campus security, literally all the harm done to Jews here was done by the university admin's wild overreaction. And it's not going to get any safer for Jews on campus if the National Guardsmen with "1488" tattoos and batons roll up.
I dunno why you’d call it *his* campus
Does he pay more tuition than the students?
There was an OpEd in the NYT yesterday written by a Columbia professor. Make of it what you will.
this article is amazing. a master troll job.
So only the Israelis that are against a jewish state are against genocide?
Fascinating
I asked a question earlier that no one responded to. I think people here define "Zionism" quite differently. For one, you are implying the definition is "Jewish state", but I would call it a "Jewish homeland", which is certainly what it originally meant and is not the same thing.
I'm interested in other people's, at least prior, understanding of this.
If someone believes that Palestinians should be equal citizens in one unified country and that those displaced in prior wars should have the right of return, did you think it was possible for that person to consider themselves a Zionist? That there has been and are a significant number of such people?
There was an OpEd in the NYT yesterday written by a Columbia professor. Make of it what you will.
I Dont have a subscription to NYT.
Also, most of the radical leftist student protestors would view McWhorter as a conservative sell-out Uncle Tom, so I dont anticipate his thoughts leading towards any introspection on their part.
I don't think he was trolling. I agree that he seemed weirdly focused on the noise and the drums. Making noise is sort of the point.
On the other hand, I doubt that he was lying about the "river to the sea" stuff or the pro-Hamas garb on some of the protesters.
As always, reality is a bit grayer than the propaganda.
I agree that the Columbia president made a mistake here.
I don't understand what's the fuss with universities wanting to decide who gets to use university land and how.
Intervening to remove unauthorized tents from university ground is orthogonal to the motivations of the protests and the presence or lack thereof of antisemitism in those protests.
Suspending students that illegally occupied land that isn't theirs, after they got told repeatedly to just ****ing leave, is simply correct no matter what they were doing on that land.
That said the reasons of the protest are kinda interesting: very narrow request about university endowment capital allocation. I am not sure which listed companies exactly they claim "benefit from israel occupation" though.
Of course not everyone understands "river to the sea" the same. People who are chanting "From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will be Free" are not chanting "murder or expel Jews". Most of them just mean to end the war and occupation.
I don't understand what's the fuss with universities wanting to decide who gets to use university land and how.
Intervening to remove unauthorized tents from university ground is orthogonal to the motivations of the protests and the presence or lack thereof of antisemitism in those protests.
Suspending students that illegally occupied land that isn't theirs, after they got told repeatedly to just ****ing leave, is simply correct no matter wha
Structures on illegally occupied land should be removed?
I asked a question earlier that no one responded to. I think people here define "Zionism" quite differently. For one, you are implying the definition is "Jewish state", but I would call it a "Jewish homeland", which is certainly what it originally meant and is not the same thing.
Originally Posted by microbet
I'm interested in other people's, at least prior, understanding of this.
If someone believes that Palestinians should be equal citizens in one unified country and that those displaced in prior wars should have the right of return, did you think it was possible for that person to consider themselves a Zionist? That there has been and are a significant number of such people?
--I wouldn't suggest going to most Muslim countries and yelling into a loudspeaker you consider yourself a Zionist. But obviously it is fine in your mind to consider yourself a Zionist, even if your perception of Zionism is different than many other peoples.
--I would say this given current geopolitical realities this wouldn't be a reasonable platform to make demands from, same as most of the SJP student protestors dont have any sort of coherent, reasonable platform for serious people to address.
It's cute to see the fascists try to use words like "orthogonal."
Originally Posted by microbet
I'm interested in other people's, at least prior, understanding of this.
If someone believes that Palestinians should be equal citizens in one unified country and that those displaced in prior wars should have the right of return, did you think it was possible for that person to consider themselves a Zionist? That there has been and are a significant number of such people?
--I wouldn't suggest going to most Muslim
Would you answer the question? I'm asking what you believe and how you personally understand the word "Zionism".
I'm not saying that quelling protests should be a goal for those in power, but if that is your goal, the best thing in most instances is to go about your business. People don't actually want to sleep in tents, hold up signs, and bang drums for months on end.
I don't think he was trolling. I agree that he seemed weirdly focused on the noise and the drums. Making noise is sort of the point.
On the other hand, I doubt that he was lying about the "river to the sea" stuff or the pro-Hamas garb on some of the protesters.
As always, reality is a bit grayer than the propaganda.
I agree that the Columbia president made a mistake here.
kinda thought the point of 4'33 was to listen to what is going on around you.
anyway, he downplays the pro-Hamas stuff. his description is more in line with the left than the people out there saying these are pro-Terrorism and anti-Jew violent marches.
I'm not saying that quelling protests should be a goal for those in power, but if that is your goal, the best thing in most instances is to go about your business. People don't actually want to sleep in tents, hold up signs, and bang drums for months on end.
when they live on loaned money they never intend to repay and / or family money and they have more sex at night in those tents than usual, and the weather is good, i think they can stay there a long while
