Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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The fact that nobody is talking about the 50% revision (drop) in Gaza casualty figures that just happened is really interesting
I went and checked the UN figures myself because I could hardly believe it
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilit...
On May 6, the UN published data showing that 34,735 people had reportedly been killed in Gaza, including over 9,500 women and over 14,500 children.
On M
https://twitter.com/lkajomovitz/status/1...
There are actual natural deaths included as well , and in 6 months+ people can and will die normally
The fact that nobody is talking about the 50% revision (drop) in Gaza casualty figures that just happened is really interesting
On May 6, the UN published data showing that 34,735 people had reportedly been killed in Gaza, including over 9,500 women and over 14,500 children.
On May 8, the UN published data showing 34,844 people had reportedly been killed, including 4,959 women and 7,797 children.
Dead adult males don't count?
Yes Israel has basically held firm since January because of the US regardless of the propaganda
they arent able to count the dead and they havent been able to for months. I just looked up the death toll from the Vietnam war and estimates widely vary.
this will turn out the same and we will in fact never be able to know how many people have been murdered. there are various reasons for this, not least of which that Israel is doing everything it can to obscure the numbers.
but at this point the butchers have dropped over 2 Hiroshimas worth of bombs on a densely packed captive population with no cover. they have caused a famine, destroyed over 80% of the buildings, displaced 75% of the population, destroyed the medical system, and attacked civilians with tanks drones and snipers.
the numbers are way higher than reported.
There's nothing at all surprising about the death toll from a warzone being off, esp when the IDF has done everything possible to squelch any meaningful reporting from inside Gaza. The constant need to minimize the body count or even deny it outright is grotesque and smacks of the worst kind of Holocaust denial.
They do, the issue is the blended data includes terrorists too. The women and children were always definite no's as it relates to terrorist deaths. Now suddenly the UN data and the IDF data are converging on the number of dead adult males, and terrorists. But we're also learning that the Hamas numbers (aka Ministry of health) are totally unreliable fabrications.
There's nothing at all surprising about the death toll from a warzone being off, esp when the IDF has done everything possible to squelch any meaningful reporting from inside Gaza. The constant need to minimize the body count or even deny it outright is grotesque and smacks of the worst kind of Holocaust denial.
The most "reliable" "independent" body in the conflict just nearly halved their dead women and children down to under 15k dead, and you're calling that Holocaust denial?
It's a very big story and a very big issue. The UN spoke publicly on the revisions (are they denying the Holocaust?).
People have been using these false numbers for months to conjure up a war time disaster of proportions "never seen". We're starting to get a very different picture of the realities of the conflict now. We can and should discuss how things like this happen.
There's nothing at all surprising about the death toll from a warzone being off, esp when the IDF has done everything possible to squelch any meaningful reporting from inside Gaza. The constant need to minimize the body count or even deny it outright is grotesque and smacks of the worst kind of Holocaust denial.
Its funny, because I am old enough to remember when certain members of this thread spent days challenging and disputing the October 7th death counts; arguing precision was very important, it was important to separate civilian and military casualties, and subtract friendly fire; and I dont remember there being moral outrage and Holocaust referencing.
But yes, we should keep in mind the Health Ministry numbers are determined and disseminated strictly for propaganda purposes, and have little link to reality.
The most "reliable" "independent" body in the conflict just nearly halved their dead women and children down to under 15k dead, and you're calling that Holocaust denial?
It's a very big story and a very big issue. People have been using these false numbers for months to conjure up a war time disaster. We're starting to get a very different picture of the realities of the conflict now. We can and should discuss how things like this happen.
But the total number remained the same.
What could it mean when trying to reconcile the large number of dismembered body parts blown up by bombs? Who knows!
Its funny, because I am old enough to remember when certain members of this thread spent days challenging and disputing the October 7th death counts; arguing precision was very important, it was important to separate civilian and military casualties, and subtract friendly fire; and I dont remember there being moral outrage and Holocaust referencing.
But yes, we should keep in mind the Health Ministry numbers are determined and disseminated
Great post.
But the total number remained the same.
What could it mean when trying to reconcile the large number of dismembered body parts blown up by bombs? Who knows!
When the Hamas death toll is up over 13,000 from the IDF perspective, suddenly these figures make good sense. Effectively we start to see the numbers converge towards a compaign of killing a lot of terrorists or soldiers (depending on who you ask) in Gaza. This ratio of dead Hamas to dead civilians is hugely important.
This thread was also largely built on the backs of dead kids. Suddenly we have a fraction as many. Overnight.
It's also worth noting how much the curve of dead is flattening in that graph...
It does matter but we have seen nothing to indicate why the number changed. And if you look at the website that rafki linked, it still has the same death totals for adult males.
The UN spoke on why the number changed....
"Fog of war" was the exact quote
Btw you guys should be celebrating that less women and children have died. You all seem mad at this news. Which is weird. This is a GOOD thing.
The most "reliable" "independent" body in the conflict just nearly halved their dead women and children down to under 15k dead, and you're calling that Holocaust denial?
No, the denial part is the implication you're drawing that the health officials are deliberately inflating the numbers. It's conspiracy mongering when the obvious explanation is that it's impossible to get accurate numbers when civil society has been bombed into the dark ages and reporters on the ground keep getting killed.
It's gross af and there is zero moral victory for either side if we discover the "true" body count is actually 33,000 dead or 38,000 dead instead of 30,000.
The UN spoke on why the number changed....
"Fog of war" was the exact quote
Btw you guys should be celebrating that less women and children have died. You all seem mad at this news. Which is weird. This is a GOOD thing.
no that was not the exact quote.
he said the numbers are what they can "cross check". he said they are just going by what they can "absolutely confirm". and he further said they necessarily represent the low end.
like those 4 young men that got blown to bits by drones. are they confirmed? what about all the people found in mass graves that are unrecognizable? or the family buried under the rubble?
No, the denial part is the implication you're drawing that the health officials are deliberately inflating the numbers. It's conspiracy mongering when the obvious explanation is that it's impossible to get accurate numbers when civil society has been bombed into the dark ages and reporters on the ground keep getting killed.
It's gross af and there is zero moral victory for either side if we discover the "true" body count is actually 33,000
"Health Officials"
Trolly, you just don't understand the system over there. And then you get on a soapbox and call us monsters for it. An internationally recognized terrorist organization runs Gaza. Everything that happens there happens on their approval. They have been caught many times cooking the books. They also have a very perverse incentive to have the biggest numbers possible.
I remind you when the "hospital" was bombed, they released the 600-800 dead within minutes. The world ran with the story and the instantly fake numbers (and by a large factor). Was that just a question of "overwhelmed health officials"?
There is an information war happening Trolly. Welcome to it.
no that was not the exact quote.
he said the numbers are what they can "cross check". he said they are just going by what they can "absolutely confirm". and he further said they necessarily represent the low end.
Tell me you didn't watch him without telling me you didn't watch him.
You're saying he didn't say "fog of war"?
He didn't just say it, it's the quote in every article on it across the globe today.
They have been caught many times cooking the books.
nope. you keep repeating this. and its been debunked by multiple sources linked in this thread multiple times. even the Israelis have admitted their numbers are historically accurate.
Tell me you didn't watch him without telling me you didn't watch him.
You're saying he didn't say "fog of war"?
He didn't just say it, it's the quote in every article on it across the globe today.
you left out crucial reasoning and meaning behind the numbers. thats why your claim that it was the "exact" quote was not in fact accurate or truthful. I added that context.
you decided you would insult me.
