Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
As the US, like Israel (and for similarly understandable if regrettable reasons), has never ratified the Rome Statute and has actually withdrawn its signature, therefore not being a state party to the ICC, the President isn't particularly entitled to a view on what the ICC does. He can say what he likes, but it doesn't mean much, it's just political positioning.
In the USA POTUS is basically in charge, with very few controls, of foreign policy.
That actually includes any statement describing any action by international actors, and he speaks with the might of the USA behind him.
Even if the USA isn't a signatory of a convention, what the USA, the most powerful country in the history of the world, thinks of a convention, has weight.
So I take it Bibi runs a real risk of going to The Hague if he travels to states which recognise the ICC? Would the UK actually arrest him if he went there for example? Not sure if Ireland would and kinda doubt it tbh.
Or are parties to it obliged to abide by the warrant? Can't imagine that Argentine [strike]weirdo[/strike] President arresting him either.
Yes he risks that. Doesn't mean there would be any automatic effects, but there are actual risks.
Milei being the hero he is , wouldn't apply that trash convention. Others, we don't know
Uh, that is wildly incorrect. The POTUS can't join or leave international treaties without the advice and consent of the Senate. He couldn't, for example, make the US a signatory of the ICC by executive fiat.
As for Bibi, it seems clear he's going to be an international pariah in perpetuity, idk if he's even going to be a free man in Israel if he gets deposed.
Uh, that is wildly incorrect. The POTUS can't join or leave international treaties without the advice and consent of the Senate. He couldn't, for example, make the US a signatory of the ICC by executive fiat.
As for Bibi, it seems clear he's going to be an international pariah in perpetuity, idk if he's even going to be a free man in Israel if he gets deposed.
Bold is false.
From wiki
/Presently, there is no Supreme Court ruling on whether the President has the power to break a treaty without the approval of Congress; it remains unclear which branch of government is empowered by the Constitution to terminate a treaty, much less the procedure for doing so.[38] In practice, a president may terminate a treaty unilaterally if permitted by said treaty's terms.[39] President George W. Bush unilaterally withdrew the United States from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, six months after giving the required notice of intent,[40] but faced no judicial interference nor legal action.[39] /
Alright, lets try this again, friends.
Reminders and amendments:
1- Post about the topics, NOT ABOUT EACH OTHER
2- The use of the term "bloodlust" will not longer be permissible when describing EITHER SIDE and will be moderated as Islamophobia/Antisemitism from this point forward
Please do not discuss bans, debate the rules, or otherwise further derail this thread. The existence of this thread is in the balance of how well the posters within it
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-shows-...
The Israeli government on Monday screened for 200 members of the foreign press some 43 minutes of harrowing scenes of murder, torture and decapitation from Hamas’s October 7 onslaught on southern Israel, in which over 1,400 people were killed, including raw videos from the terrorists’ bodycams.
In one pair of videos that were screened, Hamas terrorists are seen dressed in IDF uniforms, flagging down passing cars and then shooting their occupants.
In another, a man writhes on the ground, bleeding from his stomach, as a terrorist tries repeatedly to decapitate him with farming equipment. The man appears to be southeast Asian, possibly one of Israel’s foreign agricultural workers.
In another clip, from after the assault, an Israeli woman is seen trying to work out if a partially burned woman’s corpse, with a mutilated head, is that of a family member. The dead woman’s dress is pulled up to her waist and her underpants have been removed.
Look everyone, this is a thing that happened. Thousands of journalists got to watch the real deal. You listen to the accounts of those who watched it, and they're just not the same anymore. I don't mind not calling that event "bloodlust" because you do this as a volunteer and your life is hard enough. But collectively the moment we deny the frenzy and totality of what happened that day, the darker and worse off this world gets. I just don't want us as a group to wash over the enormity of that day. That's all I have to say.
Rafiki, your stance is noted. Regardless, I have repeatedly seen the use of bloodlust and bloodthirsty to describe the actions of either side in contexts that are right up against the line of racist tropes, and I’ve had enough of it. Racism will be moderated in this thread, and I’ve decided this is the boundary that most effectively curbs the behavior from both sides.
Rafiki, your stance is noted. Regardless, I have repeatedly seen the use of bloodlust and bloodthirsty to describe the actions of either side in contexts that are right up against the line of racist tropes, and I’ve had enough of it. Racism will be moderated in this thread, and I’ve decided this is the boundary that most effectively curbs the behavior from both sides.
Is Hamas a race?
Luciom, enough.
This is a pretty fair question. Because calling out the frenzied murders perpetrated on civilian targets that day by an internationally recognized terrorist org is truly a thing unto itself. We definitely don't worry too much about protecting the Nazis in the ways we're being asked to protect Hamas.
Not second guessing mods here so much as inviting discussion on the ideas.
At Nova festival, over 300 peaceniks, largely kids, were killed at close range. Some by hand. One by one. Often close enough to see the whites of their eyes. So whatever the word I'm allowed to use to describe that, I'll use if someone has one.
Once the kids were dead, their killers phoned home and left excited messages with mom and dad about the Jews they'd killed. So whatever word I use there to describe that without being racist, I'll definitely use in accordance with the rules.
Let me tell you both something right now. I will lock the thread again and it will go to the ether if the posters here cannot start following basic requests. The grace period is over.
I have opera rehearsal tonight and scores to learn. So don't disappoint me in here again please, besties ♥
I posted the Geneva convention rules of engagement and rules for warfare. It’s not my problem if you choose to ignore it and continue your delusions. And I don’t consider ex military people who materially and physically support IDF and its operations as civilians. Guess what, Geneva convention doesn’t either
I’d like you to humor me and cite the passage you’re referring to. I haven’t read this thread in months so I missed whatever you’re talking about.
I’m fairly sure anyone not active in the military and not actively taking part in hostilities is a civilian. Killing those people is murder. Torture, pillaging, and hostage taking are all also expressively criminal.
For those looking to find another word we can use itt, if you've never seen all the Oct 7th videos and want to, here's the site that Israelis set up (to make sure this wouldn't be glossed over). I recommend this at your own risk to your mental health:
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/
After viewing some of that we can perhaps find the right word for what was going on that day. Because I struggle to find the word myself (and I'm not bad with words typically).
Rafiki, you can take a break from this thread until 12:00 AM Eastern Time. Please do not disregard this message. Thank you, friend.
To the thread, its not a good idea to publicly look for ways to circumvent rulings. Please don't do that.
I will also stress that engaging with posts that resulted in other posters receiving timeouts is *at your own risk*.
DUBLIN — Ireland will officially recognize Palestine as a state in a move expected to be coordinated with at least two other European governments, an Irish official told POLITICO.
The move is expected to be announced at an 8 a.m. press conference Wednesday led by the leaders of Ireland’s three-party government: Prime Minister Simon Harris, Foreign Minister Micheál Martin and Environment Minister Eamon Ryan.
The Irish official — who spoke to POLITICO on condition he wasn’t identified because the purpose of Wednesday’s press conference wasn’t officially revealed in advance — said Ireland planned to coordinate its announcement in tandem with similar moves in two other European capitals Wednesday morning. The official declined to identify either of them.
"crybully" probably more accurate, but yeah. this covers a lot of it
Alright, lets try this again, friends.
Reminders and amendments:
1- Post about the topics, NOT ABOUT EACH OTHER
2- The use of the term "bloodlust" will not longer be permissible when describing EITHER SIDE and will be moderated as Islamophobia/Antisemitism from this point forward
Please do not discuss bans, debate the rules, or otherwise further derail this thread. The existence of this thread is in the balance of how well the posters within it
Man, this thread got really quiet.
I wonder if the owners of the forum would happy to learn that one of their most active threads is now dead...because of one person.
For those looking to find another word we can use itt, if you've never seen all the Oct 7th videos and want to, here's the site that Israelis set up (to make sure this wouldn't be glossed over). I recommend this at your own risk to your mental health:
https://www.hamas-massacre.net/
After viewing some of that we can perhaps find the right word for what was going on that day. Because I struggle to find the word myself (and I'm not bad with wor
This is all horrific and worthy of retaliation. Collective punishment is still inappropriate.
We can believe women's accounts of being raped and still condemn the indiscriminate killing of tens of thousands of women and children.
Picking a side is playing right into Bibi and Hamas' hands.
Bibi wants impunity and Hamas wants recruitment.
Condemn them all like a real moral agent.
This is all horrific and worthy of retaliation. Collective punishment is still inappropriate.
We can believe women's accounts of being raped and still condemn the indiscriminate killing of tens of thousands of women and children.
Picking a side is playing right into Bibi and Hamas' hands.
Bibi wants impunity and Hamas wants recruitment.
Condemn them all like a real moral agent.
Words have meanings. And I think it is a mistake to be sloppy any misuse words like this. Maybe things are less discriminate than you would want, but clearly it isn't indiscriminate. Israel drops leaflets and send text mails for days before heavy bombing of an area. Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been allowed to evacuate Rafah during the current offensive. Everything goes through a chain of command to evaluate whether unacceptable civilians casualties could occur.
We of course will never know, but I suspect Hamas reported number of civilians killed is way over inflated, and includes thousands of civilians killed by Hamas themselves, either intentionally when they are using violence to keep everyone in line, or as collateral damage when they are attacking Israel troops.
