Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
Ukraine will be using the F16s...
Well see how that turns out...
Lmao. Jets that cant be flown over ukraine flown by pilots who cant even fly them. against the 2nd biggest army in the world!
How the f do you think thatll work out??
It wont.
I See now that Holland is training 10 pilots...
As we speak. Why is this bs? Its bs bc f16 pilots cant be trained within that timeframe.
10 pilots won’t make a diff. BGP has something going on that isn’t allowing him to understand this basic stuff.
I didn’t know f16s could shoot down non cruise ship missiles but Google says they can.
I would personally use the f16s to destroy everything the Russians have but they would prob mini nuke Ukraine as a response and the US doesn’t want that
I bomb their tanks, their supply lines, oil refineries, troop barracks, all supply depots. Communication areas etc
F16s are an incredible asset and when you have multiple squadrons of them on one battlefield, they are close to unstoppable by any other country.
Washoe thank you for understanding
10 pilots cannot "destroy everything Russia has"
The 10 pilots will make a difference, it's just not going to be the "let Ukraine win the war" you had previously said.
Of course not. 10 is nothing. I’m talking 50-200 planes per battlefield. This is a war, not a practice exercise.
I never said 10 pilots would actually help Ukraine win the war. And if I did, I take it back and clarify my position
Did you make that up or do you believe I said that?
I did a quick google on how many f16s we have
The USAF service branch has received a total of 2,231 F-16s to its arsenal. As of 2023, the USAF operates a total of 841 F-16s of different variants.
Ya so if we give Ukraine 1000 F16s and we properly support them then the war is over unless Russia uses nukes.
Thank you come again
This is what you said:
I am not claiming you said 10 would do it. I'm saying you said this, because you did.
10 will not win the war, but it will absolutely help.
No ten f16s won’t materially help. Securing the skies would help literally 10x more.
If we are able to clear the skies and use ten f16s that will help them win the war BUT ITS BECAUSE THE SKIES ARE CLEAR, not because of ten planes.
Securing the skies would take minimum 10x the number of F16s being sent, so it doesn't surprise me that it would help 10x as much. That's not going to happen though.
The 10 planes will be put to use, even without the "skies clear".
Securing the skies would take minimum 10x the number of F16s being sent, so it doesn't surprise me that it would help 10x as much. That's not going to happen though.
The 10 planes will be put to use, even without the "skies clear".
Oh you use SAMs to secure the skies. You don’t use other planes. I really don’t think you have an understanding of what I’m saying. I know it’s really hard so we will do it again
The US will not use F16s as a proper weapon unless the skies are clear
So how would the US use 10x the amount of f16s to clear the air when the US won’t launch f16s unless the air is secure?
You can’t safely launch planes into war zones unless the air is secure. This is literally the third time I’ve posted this this morning and you still don’t get it.
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Unfortunately not an option either.
Of course it an option we just won’t do it cause we don’t wanna piss off russia
Regardless of if that is true or not, it is not an option to Ukraine.
What is an option is limited numbers of F16s.
You do realize 1000 is a limited number right
For the purposes of this discussion, 1000 would be far closer to an unlimited number tbh.
We both know around the limited number of F16s Ukraine will be receiving. It is not near 1000.
For the purposes of this discussion, 1000 would be far closer to an unlimited number tbh.
We both know around the limited number of F16s Ukraine will be receiving. It is not near 1000.
Ok for the purposes of discussion, 10 f16s in unsecured airspace are inconsequential and should be regarded as having zero material affect on the battle field.
That should’ve been obvious from the start
I'll remind you that the discussion was me asking you what you thought they'd be use for. I'll put you down for "they won't be used".
I clearly said a million times that they wont be used in any capacity without numbers and secure skies.
You asking a question isn’t a discussion btw
That's what I said...
You are saying they won't be used because we know the numbers and we know the skies are not "secure".
You know exactly what I meant: you were answering a question that wasn't asked of you. You were having a discussion with yourself instead of with the person who started it with you. It's clear what you mean now, next time be more precise and we can skip 15 posts.
I have no idea what you meant.
I can’t answer questions that I don’t see as real.
Zelenskyy asking publicly for permission to fire into Russia. The need is especially important since Russia is renewing attacks on Kharkiv. It's a bizarre song and dance that he needs to do for this: go public, congress will petition Biden, Biden will give Russia a fair warning... the warning should really be stuff blowing up in Russia.
Zelenskyy especially calling out some naive Europeans:
He also suggested that there was another reason for the West’s hesitation: Some countries were seeking to retain trade and diplomatic ties with Russia. “Everyone keeps the door slightly ajar,” he said.
biden doesnt want ukraine attacking inside russia tho. Like he seriously doesnt want that. its all too easy to force putins hand and all of a sudden putin mini nukes a medium sized Ukrainian city.
yea euros love that russian gas
**** russia, and **** the right wing euros that like putin
Zelenskyy asking publicly for permission to fire into Russia. The need is especially important since Russia is renewing attacks on Kharkiv. It's a bizarre song and dance that he needs to do for this: go public, congress will petition Biden, Biden will give Russia a fair warning... the warning should really be stuff blowing up in Russia.
Zelenskyy especially calling out some naive Europeans:
As much as I’d like them to win, I’m not seeing it anymore, though I honestly have largely checked out of following things. What’s the path to victory in your eyes at this point and what does victory mean?
Victory is them staying alive and keeping most of the land they have rn
10 pilots cannot "destroy everything Russia has"
The 10 pilots will make a difference, it's just not going to be the "let Ukraine win the war" you had previously said.
It's a bit more than ten. Back in December, Denmark was training its third cohort of six Ukrainian F-16 pilots. (https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2023/1...) The UK is providing initial pilot training before passing the pilots on to F-16 countries. The US is training Ukrainians on F-16s as well. Obviously ground crews are being trained on the jets, and the appropriate weapons have to be procured, integrated, fitted and maintained. It's a long process. Ukraine may have a few combat-capable F-16s by the end of the year and it will build up from there.
