Israel/Palestine thread

It was quite ok to ignore international law when doing that favoured Israel after 1967, so it's not without precedent (also the highly legally dubious Iraq invasion).

come now, one of us has spent a good portion of their time itt trying to undermine the testimony of israeli women raped by hamas on oct 7, and in all fairness it's not me is it

on the wonderfully brave boys and girls of the IDF, i hope the rapists among them are trialed and brought to justice

now that we are on the same side re: hamas' organised mass rape on oct 7, maybe i can ask why the widespread reporting of those events in almost all reputable news organisations, which you'll recall involved multiple corroborating sources, was not convincing to you at the time

Jallfezi’s plan seemed to be: deny rape, deny rape, deny rape…then agree to rape in order to trap the genocidal zionists by equating the IDF and Hamas.

by jalfrezi P

Bad news for the mass rape theorists:

and for team courageous IDF boys and girls doing brilliantly

I wouldn't exactly question the commission's findings of fact against either Israel or Hamas, but it is absurd to exculpate Hamas on the basis that its fighters committed sexual violence of their own volition and not under orders. That really is not an excuse. And there are problems with the commission's methodology and the fact that the panel is headed by 82-year-old South African Indian judge Navi Pillay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navi_Pilla...), considering that South Africa is in litigation against Israel at the ICJ and that Pillay in 2022 defended Miloon Kothari, an Indian member of the commission, who questioned Israel's membership of the UN (as if Israel were the only UN member state in defiance of UN norms and resolutions) and made an unfortunate anti-semitic remark about the 'Jewish lobby', as if he and Pillay weren't 'wielding influence' in the manner they claim to find sinister when a different ethnic group allegedly does it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miloon_Kot...)

Well if you bothered to read the UN report which I posted here so that people too idle to click on a link could read it, you'd know that equating Hamas and the IDF is what it does, and that's being somewhat generous to the IDF considering how most of the report was condemning them.

Until such a time as a more comprehensive report comes out it's all we've got and it will have to do.

Both Israel and Hamas come out of it extremely poorly and no onehere should be doing any victory dances. If anything it should be seen as something that posters itt can unite around.

TLDR.

Also lol UN.

did you read it prior to posting that it was a quote bad day for the mass rape theorists

i'm asking because it seems that one hour later you became a mass rape theorist yourself based on the contents of the report, so i'm wondering if maybe you didnt read it prior to posting that

Don't know why someone would post here if they're not interested in that report.

Israeli authorities are responsible for the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare, murder or wilful killing, intentionally directing attacks against civilians and civilian objects, forcible transfer, sexual violence, torture and inhuman or cruel treatment, arbitrary detention and outrages upon personal dignity.

Crimes against humanity of extermination, gender persecution targeting Palestinian men and boys, murder, forcible transfer, and torture and inhuman and cruel treatment were also committed.

Policy of inflicting widespread destruction and killing large numbers of civilians – amounted to incitement and may constitute other serious international crimes. Direct and public incitement to genocide is a crime under international law whenever perpetrated.

Israeli forces committed acts of sexual violence, torture and inhuman or cruel treatment and outrages upon personal dignity, all of which are war crimes

This is true.

I guess that's one way to describe multiple European nations formally recognizing Palestine.

Probably wisely the report itself doesn't use the word "mass" so people will go back and forth about what constitutes a mass event and what doesn't - it uses the word "several". I think it's pretty clear that the likeliest scenario has both of them comitting egregiously horrible acts of sexual violence and rape, and anything more than that is just splitting hairs and you should probably stop there before you're seen as condoning war crimes in your attempt to exonerate the sick regime that is Israel.

We're all aware that you're highly partisan (to put it politely) but you should really take a step back and admit that combatants from both sides have committed some of the worst offences against people imaginable.

No he doesn't deny rape. He denies Hamas raped far more than usually is the case in war nowadays (false: they raped a lot, massively systematically) and he denies that was ordered by their leaders (and in this he is probably actually right: we have no element to believe that happened and Occam razor says it didn't happen)

so, I dont know if you know this or not, but there is a difference between "mass rape" and "rape"

nobody was arguing (maybe victor) that there were no rapes. We were arguing that there has not been enough evidence to show there was mass rapes

To be precise, 6 other Palestinian groups come out as monsters from the report.

We keep using Hamas for brevity ITT and it makes sense to do so but there are many other acronyms of people in Palestine who behave the same

Can't be war crimes there is no war.

Abusing terrorists you imprisoned can be bad, can violate some international legal rules (which Israel can or cannot be part of) but can't be a war crime.

Gaza isn't a state, Hamas isn't governing a state, Hamas is a rogue terrorist organization doing things, and treating it's members horrifically still isn't a war crime.

There is no war, there is a terrorist organization attacking Israel unprovoked, and Israel responding in ways that some people dislike.

The UN report says that Hamas rape followed a pattern in many locations at the same time on 10 7.

They explicitly write it wasn't isolated incidences

What kind of a sick weirdo attempts to justify attacking a kibbutz?

He says that given some kibbutz make ammos, they are all military targets.

Unfortunately for him, Gaza isn't a state, Hamas attacks aren't military attacks, they are all terrorist attacks.

No matter the target.

they were used to attack the british in the 1900s

no I said because they have weapons and are communication centers and their history of being used to launch attacks makes them legal targets

they sell $500 million worth of goods to the military every year. stop lying

They could be legal targets (maybe) in a declared war between two actual countries.

Gaza isn't a country so...

Making ammo is obviously much more of a reason for a hostile body to attack it than is living nearby a suspected terrorist.

I had friends who went to kibbutz when they were teenagers, so no.

If the attacker was a state at war maybe.

If it's a terrorist group...