Moderation Questions and General Chat Thread
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.
This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.
Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.
Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.
So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.
Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.
So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.
We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.
Thanks.
I asked Rafiki if saying that 9/11 was an inside job should be considered anti-American and his response was to say that it's actually anti-Semitic.
It isn't inherently anti-Semitic. I'm sure that I could come up with a 9/11 conspiracy that had nothing in particular to do with Jewish people. It is indisputably a belief that has some versions that are explicitly anti-Semitic.
It is so obviously antisemitic that it is more of a joke on the Internet than something people take seriously.
It was one of the first things my father in-law asked me about. Seriously. He believed from what he read that no Jews died in the towers, because they all got the Jew signal to stay home that day. This is an otherwise very nice man fwiw.
That was a day I had to educate him.
Half my friends believe Jews killed Christ (still to this day).
We don't even need to get into how many people I know who ask me about some Soros-WEF-Jew thing I can't make much sense of when it's laid out.
My friend is a cook in Toronto, he's from Israel. If he posts an Israeli recipe he'll get comments like "Israel is an imaginary place". Same, same.
This is a thing we live with all the time. And the places where it takes place, we generally drift away from. Because why not.
See, this is the type of obvious antisemitism that I would immediately moderate without question, but Dunyain is on the pro-Israel team, so it’s hard to know if moderating it as the antisemitic comment that it is would be welcomed or just another reason to complain about my “obvious bias”.
Maybe Rafiki can tell me.
I personally think Jews play the victim card too much, like everyone else who plays the victim card.
But the point is 10/7 conspiracy theories are't happening in a vacuum. There is a 2,000 year old history of 'conspiracy theories' where Jews always end up the bad guys, and persecuting them is framed as a justifiable act in response. And the current "10/7 was an inside job" conspiracy theory definitely appears to be following this histori
sure, but even going back to my college days, we'd have all these symposiums and such and the one area where everything was shut down was the minute anyone said anything remotely critical of israel it'd get shouted down as the work of anti-semites
it's tried and tested response that sort of grants the moral high ground where anyone critical of any actions of israel can easily be painted as a hateful bigot
See, this is the type of obvious antisemitism that I would immediately moderate without question, but Dunyain is on the pro-Israel team, so it’s hard to know if moderating it as the antisemitic comment that it is would be welcomed or just another reason to complain about my “obvious bias”.
Maybe Rafiki can tell me.
Yeah the absence of "some" in there is what makes it antisemitic.
Some Jews definitely do. But without "some" it's definitely offensive. I grimaced reading it.
See, this is the type of obvious antisemitism that I would immediately moderate without question, but Dunyain is on the pro-Israel team, so it’s hard to know if moderating it as the antisemitic comment that it is would be welcomed or just another reason to complain about my “obvious bias”.
Maybe Rafiki can tell me.
Like I said, I think EVERYONE plays the victim card too much. It is something wrong with our entire society. Not singling out anyone.
Or we can discuss my recent one month ban of Luciom for posting that “Jews will not replace us” isn’t a dangerous ideology.
Rafiki, do you think that was harsh enough? Should it have been longer?
Dunyain/Kelhus isn't pro-Israel, he's a bigot and this is a convenient cover for him to **** all over Arabs. I assure you he'd go after Israel in the same vein if he could get away with it.
I didn't know that "October 7 was an inside job" was now a thing, but if it is, I'm sure we will be able to find plenty of non-Arab, "Unite the Right" idiots promoting the theory.
I didn't know that "October 7 was an inside job" was now a thing, but if it is, I'm sure we will be able to find plenty of non-Arab, "Unite the Right" idiots promoting the theory.
It is a thing in the I/P thread. Luckbox is the one promoting it the hardest, which in fairness to him is consistent with his entire worldview of conspiracy theories. But there a a few members with shall we say questionable motivations who have jumped on.
It is a thing in the I/P thread. Luckbox is the one promoting it the hardest, which in fairness to him is consistent with his entire worldview of conspiracy theories. But there a a few members with shall we say questionable motivations who have jumped on.
It's just common sense qui bono combined with the fact that they have supported Hamas for years and ignored warnings from the border guards and Egypt. It doesn't take a conspiratorial worldwide.
In my brief tenure as mod, every time I attempted to justify, or even discuss, a moderation decision in the moderation thread, this song immediately popped into my head.
It's just common sense qui bono combined with the fact that they have supported Hamas for years and ignored warnings from the border guards and Egypt. It doesn't take a conspiratorial worldwide.
Well I'm glad to hear that we have mostly dispensed with any requirement of evidence. That will make things easier.
You said that it makes sense in light of allegations that the Netanyahu government gave oxygen to Hamas, even though such allegations (to the extent they are accurate) could be more easily explained as a misguided attempt to divide Palestinian leadership.
I don't claim to be an expert in terrorism prevention, but I suspect that warnings and reports of plots are a more or less constant state of affairs, and that many reports turn out to be nothing. This obviously turned out to be significant, which looks like a huge security failure in hindsight. But that doesn't mean it was deliberate.
In any case, I'm having a hard time believing that Netanyahu was involved in an October 7 conspiracy if that is the theory. He has taken an enormous amount of domestic criticism for this attack occurring on his watch.
HERE.... is the reason for the "harsh" ban. Little time-outs have no effect on some people.
Also, King Spew is the one who warned him his next moderation issue would be a permanent ban. No warnings or threats have ever seemed to work. Maybe this will.
Yes, rafiki, cn has been accused of exactly this.
You did not chase away the Jews. Nobody has accused you of this. The antisemitism chased away the Jews. As it tends to do.
The I/P issue is one that has been going on for decades. It is unsolvable in the near future. rafikik, you know this by posting this:
But in a nutshell I think somewhere along the way this became a bit more emotional than is ideal. In a place that stirs up emotions, which is the challenge of the ask.
Wouldn't it be nice if LB's sentiment here could be intertwined in every response?
Instead of doubling down it would have been better if you tried walking it back some.
Gentlemen, I agree with the ban of mets. Much like my ban of Victor, a Lifetime Achievement Award IS acceptable as the reason. A ban is almost never for any one post....especially in P&S.
The topic of the Israeli v Hamas war can not be a discussion.... especially if everyone appears to be on a hair-trigger and if posters are looking to push buttons. Trolls in that respect are the worst form of posters in a very inflammatory way. (If you are trolling that particular thread... please give it a rest There aren't many but.......)
Trump v Biden is quite the battle of us v them..... but kinda superficial in personal consciousness. I/P hits home for several of us. REALLY hits home. Have compassion when you post there. Reread before hitting the POST button.... especially in reply if your post is only to incite another.
Bolded seems to be right-on-target imo:
I don't think Rafiki is going as far as you are saying, but I can see why you think so. If one is part of an ethnic group that has historically been the target of intense hate, it can l become very easy to be overly sensitive to any criticism. Obviously not all criticism of Israel is antisemitic, but a lot of it is, and it can become easy to put it all in the same bucket.
I think the things that Rafiki is describing are clearly antisemitic.
P&S is a sidebar on a poker forum. Mod discussions about closing this area has been going on for years. Lots of our threads are readable and congenial. BUT several are on hot topics where discussion is almost always unfruitful. If we can't have rational, adult conversations.... why even have a P&S area?
Of course they don't because it would mean having to admit that Hamas has compromised leadership
it could but not necessarily.
its more that they believe Oct 7 was a brilliant military victory due to the preparation, ability, bravery, and hard work of the Resistance. they dont want to take anything away from that.
Anyways, "anti-zionism" just seems like a completely stupid, counterproductive worldview. Israel is a developed, advanced nation that has been around longer than any of us have been born. And they aren't just going to pack up and leave because they keep getting attacked. They seem pretty dug in and determined.
Trying to destroy it, especially for religious reasons, just seems like a real bad idea that has no real upside. I look at all the places/groups organized around destroying Israel and empirically the results dont look so great.
Islamist societies need to get over Israel existing for their own good IMO. I mean if they keep up the Jihad, I imagine they will eventually win a war of attrition; but I dont think the end results will look too good. It will be a very pyrrhic victory indeed.
It's just common sense qui bono combined with the fact that they have supported Hamas for years and ignored warnings from the border guards and Egypt. It doesn't take a conspiratorial worldwide.
lol
This has been debunked thoroughly now by people who know what they're talking about inside Israel. Oct 7th is about to end Bibi's career (it's already ended many of his ex generals), nuke what legacy he had left, and was the biggest failure in Israel since anyone can remember. If you want to discuss common sense, there's your common sense.
Anyway that's not for here. But it is nonsense antisemitism. You'd never say the slaves enslaved themselves. Stop pulling this.
the moderation policy of the i/p thread is very clear. anyone in any doubt about it should feel free to PM me, and i will spell it out for you
you can either accept that policy and continue to post (as i do), or you can reject it and stop posting as rafiki, mets and gs have largely done. i respect their decision
my view, strongly held, is that you shouldn't post in it if you plan to quarrel with the moderation policy, because it's not going t
The I/P thread is way overly moderated. This is a very emotionally charged topic and yet you have to walk on egg shells. Are people really that offended when someone says something bad about their team? It's a shame you can't point out something that is true just because it hurts someone's feelings. They should just shut down the thread or get someone to run it who understands that there is not gonna be a Kumbaya moment anytime soon.
I'll probably be staying away until there is a change.
See, this is the type of obvious antisemitism that I would immediately moderate without question, but Dunyain is on the pro-Israel team, so it’s hard to know if moderating it as the antisemitic comment that it is would be welcomed or just another reason to complain about my “obvious bias”.
Maybe Rafiki can tell me.
Why aren't people allowed to have opinions? If this is how he feels what is the issue?
I think the answer to your question is do nothing.
The I/P thread is way overly moderated. This is a very emotionally charged topic and yet you have to walk on egg shells. Are people really that offended when someone says something bad about their team? It's a shame you can't point out something that is true just because it hurts someone's feelings. They should just shut down the thread or get someone to run it who understands that there is not gonna be a Kumbaya moment anytime soon.
I'll pr
It’s tightly moderated because *both* sides asked for very narrow definitions and were accusing each other of racist posting and racist intentions. Multiple times the rules have been tightened *by request*.
Also, you cannot post in that thread until you respond to the PM, as was discussed.
