[WPT Global] Official Thread
Hi 2+2ers,
Welcome to the official WPT Global thread!
WPT Global is the real-money online poker business of the World Poker Tour, and we’re about to celebrate our two-year anniversary, having launched in April 2022. After such a short time, we’re already the third-largest online poker room in the world (ranked by PokerScout.com, based on cash game traffic).
We’re joining TwoPlusTwo to share information with you, engage with the community, and answer any questions you might have.
WPT Global is special for a few reasons:
- Our modern platform has been built from the beginning to leverage AI technology. We use this in two main ways. The first is to protect the games by detecting collusion, bot use, RTA use and other forms of cheating extremely quickly. We have the best Game Integrity tech I’ve experienced in my 19 years in the industry, and a team of around 50 people using it.
- The second way we utilise AI technology is in managing our ecology. We ensure that games are sustainable and beatable by reserving seats in every game for casual players and limiting the number of seats per table that can be occupied by highly skilled professionals. I’ll go into more detail on this point later, in the below FAQ, but the net result is - we have the softest cash games you’ll find online, and typical win-rates for regs are 5-10x higher than elsewhere. (If you don't’ believe me, just try them and see for yourself).
- We have had a large liquidity pool from the very beginning, especially in cash games. This is because we partnered with a couple of successful Asia-facing poker rooms to bootstrap their liquidity. Most poker startups face an enormous challenge in growing their liquidity from scratch - this solution allowed us to launch with cash games running 24/7 and it contributes to our soft player pool. Now, WPT Global is a large poker site in its own right and less dependent on the Asia liquidity, and we’re growing our games in US Dollars all the time.
- There is enormous value on offer - our explicit aim is to pay back more to players via promotions and giveaways than any other site. Check out our current promotions here.
- Global Spins is our unique twist on the Jackpot SNG concept, with a progressive jackpot and the lowest rake in the industry (5%).
- As part of the World Poker Tour family, we’re the best place to qualify for WPT events around the world, like the WPT World Championship at the Wynn later this year.
Some of you might remember me and my colleague WPT Global Peter from our previous roles. Many years ago, I was one of the first site representatives ever to engage with the 2+2 community, as the first PokerStars representative in the ‘PokerStars Software Improvement Thread’. Later, Peter and I ran the ‘Official MPN - Microgaming Poker Network...’. You can expect a similar level of transparency and responsiveness here. While I don’t promise to respond to every single thing, no constructive question or criticism is off limits.
I look forward to engaging with you all!
All the best,
Alex Scott
President, WPT Global
(X/Twitter: @AlexScott72o)
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FAQ
You can also read a more general FAQ on our website, here.
What countries is WPT Global available in?
Currently, we have a .com licence and have not entered any regulated markets (although we will start to do so later this year). We’re open to most markets that have yet to regulate, including Canada (except Ontario), Ireland, New Zealand and most of Latin America, Asia and Africa.
We don’t (yet) accept players from the US, UK, Australia, Russia, and most of Europe. If you’re from one of these countries and want to qualify for WPT events then Club WPT might work for you!
See our Terms and Conditions (section 2.5) for more detailed information.
How does the ecology management system work? Do you ban winners from playing at WPT Global?
Our ecology management system is specifically designed so that we can run sustainable games without having to penalise winners.
In cash games, our AI technology measures the skill level of every player and predicts their win rate. The model is highly accurate and continually updates so that it cannot be abused or ‘gamed’.
We reserve a number of seats at each cash game table for players that fall into one of our ‘casual player’ categories. In our most popular game (8-Handed NLHE with an ante and a straddle) we reserve six of the eight seats for casual players, which effectively means that highly-skilled pros can only occupy two seats.
Because there is plenty of liquidity, if you find yourself categorised as a pro, you can still always find a game to play at any stake, and you can guarantee yourself a seat in a great game if you start a table, since our ecology management system ensures that only one other pro can sit with you.
The system does not categorise players by their actual win rate, but by how skilled they are. If you have a great run of luck, you will not necessarily be categorised as a pro, and vice versa, you will not necessarily be categorised as a casual player if you run bad.
We find that once players get used to the system, they love it. Both pros and beginners have a better experience because we eliminate some of the common predatory behaviour that occurs elsewhere, and pros can achieve significantly higher win rates. I encourage you to give it a try!
What’s with the games in CNY currency?
Because we partnered with Asia-facing poker rooms to launch, some of our games are in Chinese Yuan (CNY) currency. At the time of writing, the exchange rate to the dollar is about 7.25 CNY to the USD. As we’ve become less dependent on the Asian liquidity we have introduced more USD games. Most cash games and all tournaments including Global Spins are now available in USD, and for those of you that want to play in the CNY games, there’s a handy currency converter in the lobby, and the ability to change the stacks to BB.
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Edit/MH: WPT Global Peter
Day 4 of the Summer Festival started about 90 minutes ago. Some guarantees are slightly larger today, due to promotions by one of our partners:
Feeders for today's $530 WPT500 flight have already started
looks like i chose a poor time to try coming back to WPT - had the issues of never being able to join tables despite being roughly breakeven in the cash games ( Won a bit then lost it all back - stopped being able to join tables and quit playing for about a year+) Actually got a seat today somehow and somewhat enjoyed playing until someone linked me an article on this changes happening (quoting this thread)
My understanding is now there will be no affiliate rakeback if you are considered by the ai to be a winning player - unless you are first 2 people at a table getting 20% rb? Meanwhile the rake seems to be some amount substantially higher than GG which is widely considered to have mostly unbeatable rake? .
Alex is this quote of Average reg winning 20bb/100 pre rakeback on your site post-rake also?
Also Alex, just one other thing which I don't think was mentioned regarding the burner accounts. When I first started playing on WPTG, there were maybe 2/3 pros per table. Now it's probably more like 4/5. WPTG's partners do not want their business harmed and when they see the loss rates of their player pool increase significantly, it would be easy to think that WPTG is to blame. In reality, those behind the burner accounts could just as easily work through Chinese agents if they are not doing so already and the situation would be the same. I don't have a problem with the Fair Play system in principle but the way it's being implemented not only harms the honest players but I feel could potentially put WPTG's place in the network at risk.
Jimbo you're lucky that it's only 4 or 5 pros. In my games it's often 7. As I mentioned in my post above I had a long dialogue with WPT support about this. Providing them a long list of pros who've managed to circumvent the system. They don't care
Already see the trend of this table starter thing going downward spiral. Lobby looks like zomebieland with regs not letting tables close so there are tons of tables 1/8
This is not true.
I agree with this. But remember that regs on WPTG are winning over 20bb/100 before rakeback, but on GG they are losing money before rakeback. The games on GG are awful, and the games on Stars aren't much better.
The vast majority of players on WPT Global have never had rakeback, but are still making way more money than they would playing on GG with rakeback.
Yes it is!
I'd like to see validated data that allows you to say that. Post it here on the site, it'll be great publicity or maybe something to laugh at
You forget to mention that wpt segregates winning players and hides tables, which is why most players leave the site.That 20bb+ wr is hilarious, a way for some inexperienced players to sign up quickly perhaps.
I recommended almost 80 players to wpt, BEFORE this change only 10/15 are still playing there.
I wonder why 80% of them would leave wpt earning 20bb ...., or maybe a site with little traffic, segregation of winners and dysfunctional support gets what it deserves.
This is not true.
I agree with this. But remember that regs on WPTG are winning over 20bb/100 before rakeback, but on GG they are losing money before rakeback. The games on GG are awful, and the games on Stars aren't much better.
The vast majority of players on WPT Global have never had rakeback, but are still making way more money than they would playing on GG with rakeback.
@wpt global alex
Do you realise that you are comparing oranges with apples, pokerstars or gg stakes are without antes or straddles at nlhe or plo tables, while you have antes+straddles, which makes limit a lot higher than actual stake is, thats why your players are loosing a lot faster, since fishes dont understand this, its not regulars fault 😃. For example 2$ bigblind stake would be about 10$((1+2+4+(8*1)) is sb and bb, so 10$ is big blind) stake at your limit, so that 20bb/100 from some of the regs(probably one of best ones) is actually 4bb/100 without rakeback. You either ignore this on purpose, or don't understand poker at all.
Jimbo you're lucky that it's only 4 or 5 pros. In my games it's often 7. As I mentioned in my post above I had a long dialogue with WPT support about this. Providing them a long list of pros who've managed to circumvent the system. They don't care
Well, looking at my tables today, 4 or 5 pros might have been a bit too optimistic :(
Since WPT is pushing for regs to start tables HU, can we start reporting HSP that opensit, play their button and then leave the table if another HSP sits? They obviously only opensit to bumhunt. Its been happening so much and Im getting tired of being buttoned
No reg is going to play another reg HU. Punishing them/reporting them over taking 1BB from you is just stupid. Have you seen the absurd rake in HU?? If it takes you 50+ hands to finish the HU match both of you would of loss a combined 50BB in rake already.
@wpt global alex
Do you realise that you are comparing oranges with apples, pokerstars or gg stakes are without antes or straddles at nlhe or plo tables, while you have antes+straddles, which makes limit a lot higher than actual stake is, thats why your players are loosing a lot faster, since fishes dont understand this, its not regulars fault 😃. For example 2$ bigblind stake would be about 10$((1+2+4+(8*1)) is sb and bb, so 10$ is big bli
I hate to be PC Principal but can we try and keep this thread constructive. No one from the other sites even bothers to communicate on 2p2 because the threads eventually end up toxic.
That being said, I agree with what you posted to some extent. $0.5/1/2 is more like $2/$5 when you factor in the antes which means the actual winrate would be more like 10bb. They normalize with the straddle not the bb. Presumably 20bb is historical, going back over the last year or longer but I would be surprised if pros winrates were not significantly worse now. Variance is way higher due to the structure of the games and the bomb pots. Also, I might be lucky to get 150 hands per hour even starting tables whenever I can so a typical grinder might have a comparable or higher hourly with lower variance all things considered when playing GG/Stars or somewhere else. I'm getting older and don't enjoy grinding out a bunch of volume so prefer WPTG but for a younger guy who just loves poker, they might prefer somewhere else.
No reg is going to play another reg HU. Punishing them/reporting them over taking 1BB from you is just stupid. Have you seen the absurd rake in HU?? If it takes you 50+ hands to finish the HU match both of you would of loss a combined 50BB in rake already.
If a reg opensits and I sit down and they only play 1 hand, they should be reported.
If they dont want to play, let me play my button too and then leave. That should be fair, no?
Yes it is!
I'd like to see validated data that allows you to say that. Post it here on the site, it'll be great publicity or maybe something to laugh at
You forget to mention that wpt segregates winning players and hides tables, which is why most players leave the site.That 20bb+ wr is hilarious, a way for some inexperienced players to sign up quickly perhaps.
I recommended almost 80 players to wpt, BEFORE this change only 10/15 are still play
If the site makes enough rules and gaslights the player pool hard enough. It’s going to have a profitable business. Instead of just incentivizing every reg to keep making burner accounts until they figure out how to fall just outside FairPlay hsp parameters because the incentive is to be the best non hsp.
I thought I'd just throw in my two cents' worth.
1. From what I heard, 10% of the total accounts will not anymore receive rb. Assuming that these players can no longer beat rake and leave WPT, another 10% who stay would lose rb. As this keeps on happening, you will swiftly and continuously lose majority of regs who generate most rakes and keep the tables going.
You may say that as regs leave, many recs also come to your site. Recs dont play multi table, dont grind routinely and cant play long term, especially considering this site dramatic swing. You may need dozens of recs to compensate losing one HS regular player.
2. With this new mechanics that allows only 2 table openers to receive extra rb, the scenario would only turn into having only one/two people at each table at all time. No one would want to fill tables anymore, especially when having to join 2 pros playing HU. Those who cant receive extra money and cant win against pros sitting there before them are forced to turn off the app and do something else more meaningful.
This is a huge nerf to a player wr in many ways. Both regs and recs can figure this out easily, and even if indeed recs play for fun, people in general treasure their time enough not to play on this zombieland.
I know. Its still irrelevant for what I'm asking though.
You think its fair game to opensit and if a reg sits you, you only play your button and then leave?
does 2 hands make you feel better or a free walk? Im sorry you lost a BB so u gotta report them. There already enough hurdles on this app (filtered games, fighting for open tables, reduced RB) and you want to report them for not letting you play your button? This should be the least of your concern.
No reg is going to play another reg HU. Punishing them/reporting them over taking 1BB from you is just stupid. Have you seen the absurd rake in HU?? If it takes you 50+ hands to finish the HU match both of you would of loss a combined 50BB in rake already.
You don't have to play HU if don't want to but you do have to let the other player play their button. It's not at all difficult to do that.
WPT500 DAY 1 is accumulator?
31bb/100, completely unbeatable.
WPT alex, how can you justify that?
I thought I'd just throw in my two cents' worth.
1. From what I heard, 10% of the total accounts will not anymore receive rb. Assuming that these players can no longer beat rake and leave WPT, another 10% who stay would lose rb. As this keeps on happening, you will swiftly and continuously lose majority of regs who generate most rakes and keep the tables going.
You may say that as regs leave, many recs also come to your site. Recs dont play
Spot on. All labeled HSP are already opening tables since they cant see 99% of tables and once they open sit no other HSP can sit besides those burner accounts, losing regs or a rec. This new system is essentially killing off 25 50+ stake games. The higher the stake the less volume it generate. For example a regular day in 25 50 100 consist of maybe 3 to 4 tables running but with this change no reg is going to want to be the filler when a seat opens up knowing they will generate 0 RB so your games will always be shorthanded/die quickly or playing a bunch of different burner accounts everyday. This new change is basically a big F U to higher stakes games that already run at a low frequency.
Basically this change you will see lobby full of short handed games and a bunch of open sitting. I can already imagine the lobby will look like a open sit fest of 10 tables 1/8 and a few tables 2/8.
Hi Alex
The other day I tried to sit on a table to play hu with another regular AND I wasnt allowed by the system, I dont Know how the fairgame system can explain this... I mean I get that you CAP the hsp per table but this was to just start a table to play hu... At the same Time there was another table with 4 hsp AND no fish I was allowed to sit on that one, AND at the same Time there was another table with 3 fishes AND 2 hsp AND wasnt allowed to play.... This has happened many times so idk your system just dont perform the way you described.
On the starting table Booster side I have some questions.
There are a lot of times that you sart a table then leave and then you come back ¿The players that start the table retain the rb share if they leave the table AND come back?
Also many tables break and one player reamain on the table waiting to re start the action ¿If a table breaks AND two players re start the action on the same table they have the Booster?
I can see a lot of ways for some players exploit this measure if you dont have very specific rules
Hehe, feel a bit silly. I didn't know the site had some system that won't let you see high vpip tables n players lol.
Anyway, not played for that long, but how do I know if they cut my rakeback or not, any way to check? This blows a bit, pretty sure im leaving the site, too much shady ****.
That long tos, is basically "We can ban you at any time, cos you're sure to have atleast ****ed up one of the things on this list". Stuff like, a table gets bad, fish get stacked, normally ppl leave, we've all done it, it's super normal, probably not a single reg on the site who's not done it. Does that mean they can confiscate your money?
Does the site have affiliates who gets their players to bypass the segregation system? Maybe that's why someone has managed to win so much, but you can't claim "We have 31BB/100 winners" it's shitty, show us all the data or none of it, how much are you making with the insane rakeback and deep stacked games, how much you making for having people pay to get a few seconds extra timebank?
I'd be interesting to see how much you guys are making on, let's say, 50.000 people, compared to how much ggpoker is making on 50.000 people, then compare it like that.
You should let people know if they get no rakeback or not, also new players who come to the site are greeted with "fair game" which isn't fair at all, you have colluders, chip dumpers, bots, seat scripters, you name it. And to the people who don't break any of the rules, well, if you do well, you get to have fun with 7 regs and the tables u start, will get a reg popping in here and there, pretty scummy and shady, not a fan. uuuuuuuuu
Cashing out aswell when I confirm I get no rakeback n ****
