The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
It depends on the definition of that word, because the claim is that of XY chromosomes (which according to some/many people makes you a biological man, so if you identify as a female while having those chromosomes, it can be considered trans)
I've seen zero evidence for the claim of XY chromosomes (similarly for claims of her having male sex characteristics, which I've seen a lot of but seems basically 0% chance to be accurate given she was assigned female at birth). Regardless I find it hard to accept a definition of transgender that doesn't imply someone has undergone some sort of transition (including just a social one). Every definition I can find online explcitly includes something about identity being different from gender assigned at birth.
It is obviously still the case that a lot of the issues surrounding her eligibility to compete are very similar to those around transgender athletes, I just think conversations about it should be had without making inaccurate statements about her identity.
It depends on the definition of that word, because the claim is that of XY chromosomes (which according to some/many people makes you a biological man, so if you identify as a female while having those chromosomes, it can be considered trans)
Hilariously, Algeria is significantly more anti-LGBTQ than Italy so if this person is accepted in Algeria, to be an Olympic athlete no less, that would be evidence enough for you to support this person if you weren't predisposed to consider your countryman a victim
I just moved posts over from the mod thread so some things may read weird above.
i wonder how riley gaines feels about this boxer clearly aiming to take over her lane and get some of that sweet sweet republican grift money.
wikipedia says the ban was because she has xy chromosomes and elevated testosterone levels
I'm only aware of there being a single test behind the disqualification and it has been claimed as both things at different points by different authorities, including multiple contradictory statements by people related to the authority that actually administered the test, the IBA - one Russian news report where the president apparently said the XY thing, one more recent official statement that says it was unrelated to testosterone but that the specific details of the test are confidential.
Hilariously, Algeria is significantly more anti-LGBTQ than Italy so if this person is accepted in Algeria, to be an Olympic athlete no less, that would be evidence enough for you to support this person if you weren't predisposed to consider your countryman a victim
The claim (in sports in particular) has always been about biological men advantage with bone and muscular structure. Which is why there were never any trans issues in sports regarding biological women participating in men sports.
Women sports exist because women are physically inferior wrt achieving sport results for the vast majority of sports. Which is why everywhere you can measure records basically, the best men are better than the best women.
Without women-only sports, it would be really hard for any woman in any sport to ever achieve a medal at the olympics. Until very recently this was uncontroversial.
So now, again, specifically for the matter of sports, what to do with an individual with XY chromosomes, male-level testosterone, and a natural vagina (which is why she is considered a woman in algeria)? it's the ultrarare case where we should actually discuss in good faith.
Which for me would be that person should be allowed to get into women prison (no dick, no special issues basically), women bathrooms, women locker rooms, but not women sports (because the biological male advantage is present). People can disagree.
But she punches as a man, not because of talent or special training, but because of biological men characteristics, the same that pushed us to create women-only sports.
The claim (in sports in particular) has always been about biological men advantage with bone and muscular structure. Which is why there were never any trans issues in sports regarding biological women participating in men sports.
Women sports exist because women are physically inferior wrt achieving sport results for the vast majority of sports. Which is why everywhere you can measure records basically, the best men are better than the best
Imane, the Algerian in question, is 9-5 in international boxing competition. What kind of advantages do you think this person has?
Imane, the Algerian in question, is 9-5 in international boxing competition. What kind of advantages do you think this person has?
I read the 9-5 on wiki, but apparently it seems she lost exactly one match in the last 3 years, and none in the last 2, maybe at 18 she wasn't trained enough at boxing (male advantage exists, but it's not like an untrained man can easily beat top-in-the-world women obviously).
If instead you want to go through the "the male advantage doesn't exist in general in sports" well, why waste time really? just check records for any specialty with identical rules
Not the thread for this so I won't post more than this here but the boxer is not trans. She is a woman and has competed as a girl/woman her entire life. She is probably a woman with DSD (differences in sexual development) but even the evidence for that is circumstantial/hearsay because the Russian confederation that did the gender eligibility tests that resulted in her disqualification from a previous competition have never confirmed what t
what has been really unfortunate is that despite the rather unclear status, the usual anti-trans suspects are all out delivering their normal anti-trans routines as if this was a clear cut case.
Too bad.
I read the 9-5 on wiki, but apparently it seems she lost exactly one match in the last 3 years, and none in the last 2, maybe at 18 she wasn't trained enough at boxing (male advantage exists, but it's not like an untrained man can easily beat top-in-the-world women obviously).
If instead you want to go through the "the male advantage doesn't exist in general in sports" well, why waste time really? just check records for any specialty with id
I don't think there is enough to go on to say that Imane Khelif is a male. Shes certainly not Trans.
So now, again, specifically for the matter of sports, what to do with an individual with XY chromosomes, male-level testosterone, and a natural vagina (which is why she is considered a woman in algeria)? it's the ultrarare case where we should actually discuss in good faith.
If it's true that she has XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone, but she appears female (including in genitals), I'd guess this is androgen insensitivity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen...
If that is the case, the chromosomes and testosterone levels are sort of red herrings for figuring out sex.
It shouldn't be political because you guys should agree with us like you did until 10-15y ago. Then you invented a completely made up theory of how to decide what "woman" means and now it's politicized.
I agree that should stop and you guys should go back to what most human beings that ever existed before you were born, and normal people in the present, think
She landed 2 straight rights cleanly on a boxer with 100+ amateur fights and made her quit like a little bitch so maybe shes better than you are giving her credit for?
Exactly. Avoid the fact your argument is **** and answer some other random question.
This doesn't even seem to be a trans issue so we're essentially debating air. But the idea that ''because people lose there is no advantages'' is a an argument let alone a good one is laughable.
It shouldn't be political because you guys should agree with us like you did until 10-15y ago. Then you invented a completely made up theory of how to decide what "woman" means and now it's politicized.
I agree that should stop and you guys should go back to what most human beings that ever existed before you were born, and normal people in the present, think
You're debating with crazy people who disagree that Lia Thomas has advantages because she(I'll be respectful) lost a match or two.
It's a gender theory issue for sure;
whether it's a trans one can be argued, at usual it's semantics and the whole topic has shifting semantics depending on what the activists want to push at the time.
Exactly. Avoid the fact your argument is **** and answer some other random question.
This doesn't even seem to be a trans issue so we're essentially debating air. But the idea that ''because people lose there is no advantages'' is a an argument let alone a good one is laughable.
How can you quantify an advantage that doesn't materialize into wins?
What are the quantifiable advantages if the best trans athlete is still worse than the best non-trans athlete?
And in this case, the athlete isn't trans, so keep in mind the arguments don't even apply to this situation.
It's a gender theory issue for sure;
whether it's a trans one can be argued, at usual it's semantics and the whole topic has shifting semantics depending on what the activists want to push at the time.
The "semantics" here are the difference between being a lauded Olympic athlete and a criminal.
You're debating with crazy people who disagree that Lia Thomas has advantages because she(I'll be respectful) lost a match or two.
Michael Phelps had advantages because his torso just happens to be the ideal shape for maximum efficiency in the water.
We can essentially boil the greatest swimmer of all time down to genetic positioning if we want
Male born with a vagina and not trans.
