2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Playing 4d chess ldo. Takes a genius to make everyone think you're a moron. The most genius thing is, nobody knows why he's doing this.
In any case, I think anyone who denies that the MAGA crowd are significantly more stupid than the average non-MAGA republican, let alone the average person, is either being disingenuous or not paying attention.
There are almost no mandatory, general population vaccines mandates for adults in most western countries actually, when covid vax mandates happened they were the first either ever, or in many decades, almost everywhere.
Interesting that you give me a link with mandatory vaccinations for minors (*FOR PATERNALISTIC REASONS* *WITH STERILIZING VACCINES* *FOR DISEASES THAT ARE VERY DANGEROUS FOR MINORS* ) to justify a vaccine mandate for adults *
The vaccines are mandated as children so they get a lifetime of protection from those diseases including into adulthood. You can't really be that dense. What you claim as bad faith is simple misunderstanding of basic logic.
What's different about COVID is the disease was introduced during our lifetimes, thus there was no vaccine available to adults when they were children. Again, this surely is obvious to anyone who examines the situation with any more than a passing interest.
The lethality of COVID was unknown during the times the vaccine was introduced, including long-term morbidities, contrary to your protestations otherwise. This was especially true based on the unknown etiology of potential variants.
Not getting the vaccine is literally survival of the fittest. I’m sorry that Lucioums brain doesn’t properly understand risk. Not sorry that he is removing himself from the gene pool
And I’m sure he feels the same way about me
medical staff mandate unfortunately was constitutional because of how congress wrote the rules. OSHA mandate wasn't.
Fact is the general population attempted mandate (and factual mandate in many blue states) was an explicit choice by government of claiming "your body isn't yours, we decide for what we arbitrarily think is good for others". Which is IDENTICAL to what people do with abortion. They want to arbitrarily decide that the value of
You are entirely missing the point.
Vaccines aren't about controlling the choices of people, its about saving lives.
I get that you are a libertarian. But what that means is that you can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt other people.
In this case the only way to save lives was to mandate vaccines during the pandemic. And by save lives I mean to stop people like you from causing deaths because you wanted to be able to choose not to be vaccinated in situations where it would put other people's lives at risk.
In the case of medical facilities it meant that employees would have to choose between getting vaccinated or not working there any more. And they were free to choose. If they really believed that they didn't have to get vaccinated then they could quit. Their choice.
lol iq, lol iq guesstimates
if vance was actually smart, he'd be able to trick ppl into liking him
The vaccines are mandated as children so they get a lifetime of protection from those diseases including into adulthood. You can't really be that dense. What you claim as bad faith is simple misunderstanding of basic logic.
What's different about COVID is the disease was introduced during our lifetimes, thus there was no vaccine available to adults when they were children. Again, this surely is obvious to anyone who examines the situation wi
omg at the bold I stop here or I risk a ban.
not a single person died over baseline under40 in italy, France, Germany, Belgium in 2020. not one.
it was so obvious to everyone that the disease was completely insignificant for young people that they had to 1) try to scare them regardless with outlier stories (to no avail as none of their friend ad nothing when they got COVID) 2) start making gvmnt sponsored ads about you going out disregarding COVID and that kills grandma (yes Spain did that)
jfc the bad faith.
vaccines were introduced in the last decades for diseases which we previously had no vaccine for and they were never mandated to the general population.
the flu vaccine never was as well to the general population of adults.
last post with you about anything COVID related, claiming it wasn't already absolutely crystal clear that COVID was completely irrelevant under40 in may 2020, nevermind end of 2020 when vaccines became available, is a blatant lie of such proportions that no decent conversation can develop, because you know 100% it's a lie, it's not a mistake on your side.
Trump aced the cognitive test, dude.
How could anyone else possibly be smarter?
Have you heard Vance say one smart thing? Like, one single sentence where you thought to yourself, "damn that chap is smart"
I haven't
Every time he opens his mouth he sounds like a rube. And hes a puppet so its significantly more likely than normal hes just a plant.
But I guess if hes 135 IQ then I'm 150+
you dislike his ideas and you can't even comprehend the possibility of very smart people opposing your ideology, you are fully clouded in judgement by political fervour.
you sound like Birthers claiming Obama was stupid
it might be true, but it's an idiotic point
I remember when Operation Warp Speed was Trumps biggest political accomplishment. Somewhere along the way the MAGA crowd took that away from Trump and blamed the vaccines on the Dems.
Wild world we live in where ones own team would undermine winning the world series and give the trophy straight to the opposition
having 0 excess deaths in a demographic before vaccines were available is not an idiotic point to claim that we already knew as a certainty COVID was irrelevant for that demographic.
note that this includes Madrid, Bergamo, in march-april 2020, places which had fully uncontrolled spread, when we even had no clue how to treat it at all.
with fully uncontrolled spread not a single 16-40 over baseline died, and fewer 0-15 died for obvious reasons (are their obvious to you?)
it's the reason why we can claim very easily, and the opposite is blatantly false, that we were certain COVID was insignificant for approx half of the population
you dislike his ideas and you can't even comprehend the possibility of very smart people opposing your ideology, you are fully clouded in judgement by political fervour.
you sound like Birthers claiming Obama was stupid
I mean, he has horrible ideas. Like sharing his idea about childless cat ladies. A chimp could have told him that line was a dud.
His latest one about ethnic conclaves being like Gangs of New York... another dud. That comment was dumb in a vaccum as well.
You can claim I'm biased or whatever but hes objectively cancer in the polls so maybe you are biased.
and what happened among o40? what happened outside those 4 countries? how does public health work when you have an airborne virus spreading??? beat it, pagliacci
Proof of the bold? I know that the very smart skew democrat a bit but that doesn't imply the bold.
How is having an extra human in society or not, not something that affects more than the person body? fertility rates in society, as per the recent endless debate on the topic, are something that affect everyone in the long term, in very big ways. They are literally used to justify more immigration than inthe past in many countries for example.
My point is just that there are stupid people in both parties even if I think the percentage is higher for Republicans.
Having an extra human in society is consequential, but we’re talking about abortion itself, not the consequences of the abortion. If a pregnant woman has a baby or doesn’t have a baby, she has the brunt of the effects. Whereas if you go around with an illness that could have been avoided had you taken the vax, or clog up our healthcare system, you are hurting yourself yes but you can also end up hurting a lot of other people in the process even if you don’t get killed by the virus yourself.
My body my choice is just the concept of bodily autonomy represented in a slogan. We still have to cache that out into a philosophical position in order to speak on it more clearly.
and what happened among o40? what happened outside those 4 countries? how does public health work when you have an airborne virus spreading??? beat it, pagliacci
again, there is SPECIFIC CLAIM by a poster.
SPECIFIC: that when vaccines were mandated the danger ti young people was unknown.
that's a ****ing lie.
OTHER , completely different, considerations are different argument.
he wants to claim that part of the reason to mandate it even to young adults was the danger TO THEM of the disease.
he also claimed that we routinely mandated in the past which never happened for 70+ years for adults.
those are completely false claim.
instead, saying "I mandated because even if we know the disease is irrelevant to you, there is x y z" is true. it's without any precedent in western history and a complete violation of the Hippocratic oath and of any version of body autonomy but you can agree with that.
you operate a medical procedure by mandate on someone YOU KNOW doesn't need it, to help third parties. no precedent , exceptional violation of several basical ethical norms, but at least a congruent, if fascist, argument.
and an argument that FOREVER denies to anyone who accepted that, to claim "my body my choice" about anything.
you supported violated basic freedoms about healthcare for third parties considerations. anyone else can do the same and you can't complain, to stay on topic.
having 0 excess deaths in a demographic before vaccines were available is not an idiotic point to claim that we already knew as a certainty COVID was irrelevant for that demographic.
note that this includes Madrid, Bergamo, in march-april 2020, places which had fully uncontrolled spread, when we even had no clue how to treat it at all.
with fully uncontrolled spread not a single 16-40 over baseline died, and fewer 0-15 died for obvious reason
I wonder how those old people are being infected with covid? I guess we’ll never know
you supported violated basic freedoms about healthcare for third parties considerations. anyone else can do the same and you can't complain, to stay on topic.
It’s a pandemic and it has killed millions of people. I really disagree that the evidence was so cut and dry at the time as well. The entire world was trying to fight the virus in the strongest possible ways. I’m sure mistakes were made in the midst of a global public health crisis.
the "if you catch it you hurt others" is another lie check draw btw.
everyone got exposed by COVID , repeatedly, anyway, so there was no reduction in exposure in the middle term anyway, so 0 marginal effect of protection on aggregate COVID damage (for third parties).
the vaccine exclusively helped those who took it, and no one got damaged by another person decision not to get vaccinated, because the disease, as predicted and expected, was anywhere anyway, ineradicable, because the vaccines, as predicted and expected, don't sterilize against it
I wonder how those old people are being infected with covid? I guess we’ll never know
vaccinated people spread the same after a while (as expected and as we already knew, given that infection provided a decaying protection and vaccines mimicked the infection) so at the end you catch it the same even if 100% get the vax, with the same probability, after a couple of years
having 0 excess deaths in a demographic before vaccines were available is not an idiotic point to claim that we already knew as a certainty COVID was irrelevant for that demographic.
note that this includes Madrid, Bergamo, in march-april 2020, places which had fully uncontrolled spread, when we even had no clue how to treat it at all.
with fully uncontrolled spread not a single 16-40 over baseline died, and fewer 0-15 died for obvious reason
Well that’s great news .
We could at it worst .
The world did a great job in general except US and Brazil .
anyway we are OT as usual, my claim was just about the current election and the logical impossibility, or fraud, of the party of vaccine mandates for fertile age women claiming the other party wants to control the health of fertile age women while they don't.
they just proved they have no qualms controlling the health of women when it fits their ideology.
you guys say "but it's different", fact is, it's not.
You are either always against the state deciding about healthcare of adult women, or you can't claim it's inherently bad for the state to decide something about the healtcare of adult women.
you can argue policy per policy, that you think some specific choice is wrong about government mandated healthcare choices. but never with the blanket of "we are the party of choice", it's fraud.
If republicans raise payroll taxes by 5% they can never again claim they are the party of tax cuts, no matter if raising those payroll taxes is necessary or whatever, maybe this makes it easier to understand my claim
