The costs of trans visibility

1. I agree that banning you for having 88 in your name is unjust and stupid. I'm curious why you can acknowledge that as unjust, but stop short of saying as much about the lesbian scenario, even if ultimately you acknowledge that it's up to reddit to run their site how they want? Imagine you are the admin -- what's your ruling?

2a. Right, so you consider it a valid sexual orientation then, right? Why would whether a "trans-lesbian" is coming from a place of malice or not matter? Assume they aren't. I'm asking what YOU think about these scenarios, not how others might.

2a. Perhaps this will clarify any ambiguity: at what point do you consider a trans-identified male to be fully "transitioned" and equal to a same-sex attracted female, i.e., when should we/society/lesbians/females consider them a lesbian? Is there a threshold that can weed out the malicious and sketchy ones?

3. What/who is denying the trans-identity exists? You think it's okay for the lesbian in this scenario to say, "I don't want to date you because you're trans" to a trans-identified male who identifies as a lesbian? But it's problematic if the lesbian says, "It's not because you're trans, it's because you have a penis and I see you as male?" because that's rejecting the trans-identity that should supersede the trans-lesbians biology? Is that correct?

7. Restraint due to what, though? Because your partner was a female or just because they were your partner? If a guy threw the headbutt, do you still only slap him or throw a bunch?

8. You didn't suggest a solution, only said what wouldn't be the answer and that a business has the choice (which might not be true since legislative changes are/can place "gender identity" on the same level as sex). Reading between the lines, it seems you're leaning toward self-identification to supersede biological sex in these cases? Ok, so regardless of any trauma or fear that women have at being naked with males, the "soul" inside is most important and the trans-women in question have every right to join the female-only nude spa area. Is that a fair summarization of your stance?

8a. I am not outlining "most scenarios." I gave you extremely specific scenarios. You are circumventing every question to answer something else. I didn't say there were no other options. How would that even be a question worth posing? Do you think trans-identified males should be allowed to work in female-only clinics, such as rape trauma centers or domestic violence shelters? Given that you believe they're one in the same, I assume yes?

8b. Is there? If I say, "I choose a female doctor" and a "trans-identified male" shows up, did I get my choice granted or what? I am not asking about the choice, but the result. Again, you seem to be avoiding answering directly.

8c. Ok, so "they should be accommodated for as much as possible" means what? We should make the distinction between trans-identified males and females for women who adhere to these distinctions? Ok, so we make exceptions for this kind of exclusionary bigotry if a female has been abused?

9. Ok, can you understand that I have no idea what distinction you're making due to the corruption of our language here? Can you try and be clearer with answers when the stances I'm curious about are kind of obvious? Is it worthless for me to make the distinction between female and "trans females" in this convo because you're using them interchangeably? Genuinely confused.

uke,

Sorry, I'm just going to throw you on ignore. Too difficult to corral you into what is actually being discussed. It's a chore to deal with it.

I really don’t care about feels (ie, gender identity). If you’re a man, I’m calling you he, because that is the correct pronoun for a man. How do I know a person is a man, XY chromosomes, a penis of varying size, production of male gametes.

Some people in Spain are fighting back against the law that allows to change sex just by self identification with absolutely no other consideration taken.

How?

By doing that.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/...

Since the "law for the equality of trans people" came into force in March 2023, 47 people have changed "sex" in the civil registry in the Spanish enclave on the Moroccan coast. Of these, 39, mainly military and police personnel, have changed from male to female. LGBTQ associations were quick to point to a possible fraudulent application of the law.

"There can be no fraud in the law, since the law is based on self-perception and contains no requirements. Those who question the gender condition I claim should be careful. We've already filed a complaint for transphobia against the National Federation of Gays, Lesbians and Trans, a woke association that criticizes us for not changing our appearance," explained, with the utmost seriousness, David Peralta, a 37-year-old Madrid "policewoman," secretary and co-founder of the Non-Normative Trans Association, to which most of Ceuta's policemen-turned-policewomen belong.

/Some say they want to increase their chances of obtaining custody of their children, others want to pass the women's competitive exams to become a firefighter or police officer more easily, or avoid complaints of gender violence/

Do you guys start to understand that if you allow change of legal sex just by self identification, you cannot have ANY special rule for women in any part of society right? it annihilates ANY special treatment of women you might want to have

///

Another guy in Spain, with a guilty verdict for assault on his girlfriend, legally changed sex becoming a woman and that cancelled the aggravating "violence over women" factor that requires the perpetrator to be a man, beating a woman

Transallies do not care about women. They’re misogynists; all of them. They do not mind destroying the equality women have fought years to obtain.

I had to google it because i thought it was a joke, in Italy 88 isn't banned content and here it's the first time i read it linked with antisemitism.

Googling i found that it stands for heil hitler or something like that because is the eight letter.

But in Italy any nickname with 88 in it would just imply that's the year of birth of the user

I saw you deleted your comment saying ''it's a well known code''. It's really not.

in 99.99% of the cases it would imply the year of birth of someone and not just in Italy.

I'm giving you straight forward answers. There is a reason I'm not a reddit admin or a 2p2 mod. There is a reason I don't write policy or own a business.

1. If I'm admin there are no rules. I stated that pretty clearly. We know this doesn't work and certain topics devolve. I think if someone breaks an explicitly written rule its just though. I didn't break a rule and it was unjust. If someone is getting banned without breaking any rules its unjust. But its also reddit and I would never shout about the unjustness of reddit. I choose to be there.
2. Yes its valid. I bring up malice because, shockingly, this whole discussion stemmed from you trying to frame trans people as malicious. Mind blowing, I know.
2a. Fully transitioned means they've gone through all surgeries that generally come with "transitioning". There is no "equal" here. They are always lesbians.
3. You explained it pretty well yourself.
7. Yeah because shes female.
8. Yes, thats a fair summarization. I don't think we should legislate out edge cases. Edge cases should be addressed, and sometimes its difficult and sloppy.
8a. I answered straight forward, its just not the answer you want. She is free to choose her doctor. Its trivial to request another doctor if another doctor is available. You ignored my question. If no other doctor is available then what should she do?
8b. If you request a female doctor and a trans female doctor shows up and you start screaming about the man, well, some people are going to think you are a bigot. But people are certainly free to do that. They aren't free from judgement.
8c. If someone is a nazi I think you should probably not send in a black doctor, if possible to avoid, simply because it would most likely be counter productive. If you can avoid counterproductive scenarios then by all means, but again, sometimes you go to the doctor and its just one black dude. We should accommodate bigotry as much as possible in these scenarios to avoid bad scenarios. But its not something you legislate out so people can feel even more comfortable with their bad opinions.
9. All female staff would include trans females. I'm using the language for your benefit because you don't believe trans females are a real thing

It's a massive leap to assume someone is promoting Nazi ideology because they have 2 numbers in their name. I'd assume it's just a birth year or random before outright banning someone for it. We should also stop ceding normal things to dick wads. Pepe the Frog and the OK symbol need to be reclaimed, too.

88 is relatively well known. There are lots of 88 tattoos and stuff out there as an example. But it’s also Michael Irving’s number, and a birth year, and 8 is a luck number to (probably) billions of people, so yeah, I’m vehemently against ceding the number 8 to nazis. It’s been my favorite number for 30+ years because it’s also infinity

this guy is going places 😀

As an example of what? 88 being HH or just 88 being any of the other reasons you mentioned? Can't say I've seen many 88 tattoos in my life let alone 88 that stood for heil hitler but I'll admit I don't really hang out with nazis so maybe I'm missing out.

it's actually a real shame because the nazis didn't make much original symbolism

the overwhelming majority of the stuff they used was borrowed and things which were commonly used throughout history and now we can't use that anymore because using that 13th century shepherd symbol which the nazis liked now means you are a nazi

you can't even do what used to be the very popular toothbrush mustache style (which is an american originated style actually)

adolf used to be a very popular name - in 1880 over 2% of all german boys were named adolf - for perspective about 1% of americans are named michael

it's super refreshing where you can go to asia and they still use swastikas as they always have and dgaf that the nazis also used them

Its not like they are terribly common. Most people know not to flaunt nazi imagery. I can't say I've ever seen one in real life

just two bros born in 1988

He also ruined the mustache for mankind. I would look even hotter with that mustache but can't cause someone decided to ruin it for us all.

*******.

It's "trans allies". No space. Please do get the basics right as you spout your, uh, whatever this is.

Or you can decolonize Hitler mustache and re appropriate it

Not a bad idea.

Adolf Hitler, after the Great War, affected a Charlie Chaplin moustache, which was in fashion at the time, because like a lot of basically humourless people he was a massive Chaplin fan. He was very annoyed by Chaplin's 1940 film The Great Dictator, which made fun of him, but by then his official 'state image' was fixed and he couldn't change it and had to carry on wearing a Chaplin, which is, I suppose, quite funny.

I always thought it was Hitler who tried (and miserably failed) to make fun of "the great dictator" movie

not even jordan could revive it

by rickroll P

not even jordan could revive it

I'm better looking than Jordan.

Pretty sure it was Chaplin who had the laugh on Hitler rather than the other way round. For one thing, Chaplin didn't even have a moustache, except a stuck-on one for filming because it looked funny.

I had sex with a lesbian once. Twice actually. Was happy to be able to check that box off. She's now happily in a relationship with a woman but just wanted to try it.